Integrating 2nd order derivative

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating integrals of a polynomial function and its derivatives, specifically focusing on the integrals of f(x), f'(x), and f''(x) over the interval from -1 to 1. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and application of the fundamental theorem of calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the polynomial function f(x) = 7x^3 + 8x^2 - x + 11 and seeks to evaluate its integral and the integrals of its first and second derivatives.
  • Another participant suggests using the fundamental theorem of calculus to evaluate the integrals of f'(x) and f''(x) directly.
  • There is confusion expressed by a participant regarding the integration process, specifically whether to integrate the result of the first integral again for subsequent parts of the question.
  • Clarifications are made that f'(x) is the derivative of f(x) and that integration is the reverse process of differentiation, implying that the integral of f'(x) can be evaluated without further integration of the already integrated function.
  • Further emphasis is placed on the application of the fundamental theorem of calculus for evaluating the integrals of the derivatives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express confusion regarding the integration process, but there is a general agreement on applying the fundamental theorem of calculus to evaluate the integrals of the derivatives directly. However, the discussion does not reach a consensus on the specific steps to take for the evaluation.

Contextual Notes

Some participants may be unclear about the terminology and the steps involved in integrating derivatives, leading to potential misunderstandings about the application of the fundamental theorem of calculus.

Maths Muppet
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The question is

If f(x) = 7x^3 + 8x^2 - x + 11, evaluate :

a, Integral +1 - -1 f(x) dx
b, Integral +1 - -1 f'(x) dx
c, Integral +1 - -1 f''(x) dx

For a, Just integrate each individual and then input the figures which gave me

1.75x^4 + (8x^3)/3 - 0.5x^2 + 11x

Which when I input the figures gives me 27 1/3.

It is b, which I am unsure about. Do I intergrate 1.75x^4 + (8x^3)/3 - 0.5x^2 + 11x and then put the values in?

Some guidence would be most appreciated, thank you.
 
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Hello Maths Muppet! Welcome to PF.

Are you familiar with the fundamental theorem of Calculus? The form of it that is useful here is:

[tex]\int^b_a g'(x) dx = g(b) - g(a)[/tex]

You can apply that to b and c quite directly.
 
I think your reply has just confused me a little bit. I might be using the wrong termonology but I thought all that I would have to is integrate 1.75x^4 + 8x^3 - 0.5x^2 + 11x and then insert the values back in. Is this correct?
 
Maths Muppet said:
I think your reply has just confused me a little bit. I might be using the wrong termonology but I thought all that I would have to is integrate 1.75x^4 + 8x^3 - 0.5x^2 + 11x and then insert the values back in. Is this correct?

f'(x) means the derivative of f(x) with respect to x. Integration is the reverse of differentiation. So for example, if f(x)=x2, then f'(x)=2x. So ∫2x dx=x2+C.

See now why Gib Z said you can directly work out the integral?
 
Maths Muppet said:
I think your reply has just confused me a little bit. I might be using the wrong termonology but I thought all that I would have to is integrate 1.75x^4 + 8x^3 - 0.5x^2 + 11x and then insert the values back in. Is this correct?
1.75x^4+ 8x^3- 0.5 x^2+ 11x is the integral of your original function and does not have to be integrated again for problem (a).

Gib_z's point is that
[tex]\int_{-1}^1 f'(x)dx= f(1)- f(-1)[/tex]
and that
[tex]\int_{-1}^1 f"(x)dx= f'(1)- f'(-1)[/tex]
 
[itex]\int_a^b f(x)\,dx\,=\,F(b)\,-\,F(a),\,where\,F'(x)\,=\,f(x).[/itex]
FTOC is great!
 

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