Interaction in QED: Electron/Proton Attraction & Repulsion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the interactions between electrons and protons as described by Quantum Electrodynamics (QED), specifically addressing why electrons repel each other while they attract protons. Participants explore the implications of the S-matrix in scattering processes and the role of the electromagnetic field in these interactions, including the use of Feynman diagrams.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that QED calculates the S-matrix for electron-electron and electron-proton scattering, allowing for indirect conclusions about the nature of interactions (attraction vs. repulsion).
  • There is a question regarding whether the calculation of the S-matrix considers the quantum nature of the electromagnetic field or if it assumes a Hamiltonian of interaction without photon exchange.
  • One participant explains that traditional QED uses an interaction Hamiltonian involving charged fields and photon fields, leading to the interpretation that charges interact through "exchanges of virtual photons," though they express skepticism about this conclusion being arbitrary.
  • Another perspective introduced is the "dressed particle" formulation of QED, suggesting that the electron-electron interaction can be viewed as a direct instantaneous potential, with the S-matrix results being equivalent to those from traditional QED.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the interaction mechanisms in QED, particularly regarding the role of photon exchange and the nature of the interaction Hamiltonian. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the nature of the electromagnetic field and the interpretation of the interaction Hamiltonian, which are not fully resolved in the discussion.

paweld
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Why according to QED two electrons repel each oteher while
electron and proton attract. What are Feynman diagrams for
these proceses. Thanks for help.
 
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paweld said:
Why according to QED two electrons repel each oteher while
electron and proton attract. What are Feynman diagrams for
these proceses. Thanks for help.

QED is capable of calculating only the S-matrix for the electron-electron or electron-proton scattering. So, from QED you can know amplitudes that connect asymptotic states (long before and long after the collision). Form these data you can indirectly figure out the type of interaction between colliding particles (i.e., attraction vs. repulsion). However, QED cannot tell you how exactly the particles move when they are in close proximity.

Eugene.
 
Thanks for your answer. I wonder if calculating S-matrix for electron-proton or
electron-electron scatering involves considering quantum nature of electromagnetic
field or we only assume that there is hamiltonian of interaction between these
particles (no exchange of photon is considered).
 
paweld said:
Thanks for your answer. I wonder if calculating S-matrix for electron-proton or
electron-electron scatering involves considering quantum nature of electromagnetic
field or we only assume that there is hamiltonian of interaction between these
particles (no exchange of photon is considered).

In traditional textbook QED the interaction Hamiltonian is a product of charged fields and the photon field. So, integrals for scattering amplitudes contain factors (photon propagators) that are obtained as certain matrix element of products of photon fields. In Feynman diagrams these propagators show up as wavy "photon lines". From this some people conclude that charges interact via "exchanges of virtual photons". But in my opinion this conclusion is completely arbitrary.

There is also a "dressed particle" formulation of QED in which the Hamiltonian of the electron+electron system does not contain photon contributions. In this approach, the electron-electron interaction can be interpreted as a direct instantaneous potential (Coulomb + corrections). The S-matrix computed in this approach is exactly the same as in the traditional renormalized QED.

Eugene.
 

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