Intercapacitance: Can it Cause 230 V Contactor to Latch Momentarily?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the failure of an emergency push button to stop a pump, with a focus on the potential role of intercapacitance affecting a 230 V contactor. Participants explore the implications of electrical properties, circuit design, and possible mechanical issues related to the incident.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Rajesh describes an incident where a pump did not stop despite pressing the emergency button, suggesting intercapacitance might cause the contactor to latch momentarily.
  • Bob S emphasizes the need for a schematic and analysis of the circuit, noting the capacitance of cables and suggesting that normally closed pushbutton switches would be safer.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the electrical expert's claim, arguing that any momentary holding due to capacitance would be very brief, potentially lasting no more than 10 ms.
  • Concerns are raised about the mechanical reliability of the emergency stop button, with speculation about possible mechanical sticking delaying the breaker from opening.
  • Bob S proposes that the pump might be using a mechanical latching relay, which could explain the behavior observed, and suggests using separate contacts for the holding circuit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express skepticism about the initial explanation involving intercapacitance, with some questioning the expertise of the electrical expert. There is no consensus on the cause of the issue, as multiple theories are presented, including mechanical failure and circuit design considerations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding the circuit schematic and the electrical properties involved, highlighting that assumptions about the circuit design and component behavior are critical to the discussion.

avrajesh1045
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A pump did not stop when operator pressed the emergnecy push button. He ran towards another start/stop station and pressed the stop button. Even then the pump did not stop. After a while according to operator the pump stopped on its own. Electrical expert says that this can happen because of intercapacitance due to distance between 230v contactor and push button station. The distance was hardly 30 metre.
Can intercapacitance effect 230 V contactor to latch momentarily?

Rajesh
 
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Before you can determine why the emergency push button did not work properly, you need to get a schematic of the circuit and the electrical properties of the components, and analyze it. Very roughly a cable has ~ 100 picofarads per meter of capacitance (depending on cable choice), or ~3 nanofarads for 30 meters. For safety reasons, the pushbutton switches should be normally closed (NC) and open when pushed. It would be safer if each pushbutton had a separate cable to the contactor, but they could be wired in series.

Bob S
 
You might question the 'expertness' of your expert.
Presumably the equipment runs on AC so it is hard to see how this 'momentary' holding-on could last more than 10ms (half a cycle of the mains). Also the time constant of any power circuit, loaded with an extra few nF is of the order of ns!
Could the delay be deliberately built-in for some reason?
It sounds to me that you could have something mechanically 'sticky' which is delaying the breaker from opening after the control current stops.
 
And since it is an emergency stop button that isn't working properly, I suggest the pump is not run until this is figured out. I hope nobody got hurt...
 
sophiecentaur said:
You might question the 'expertness' of your expert.
Yep!
 
It is possible that your pump is running on a mechanical latching relay, and not one that releases with a break in the relay coil circuit. See Fig. 3 in

http://www.eleinmec.com/article.asp?24

The relay shown in Fig. 3 is a SPST. You could use a DPST relay and use separate contacts for the holding circuit.

Bob S.
 

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