Interior Schwarzschild Metric: Pressure Dependence

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the influence of pressure on the interior Schwarzschild metric, particularly focusing on the radial component of the metric and its relationship to pressure as described in theoretical frameworks. Participants explore the mathematical and physical implications of pressure in the context of general relativity and the geometry of spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss the radial component of the metric, A(r), and its dependence solely on the mass included up to radius r, questioning the physical reasons for the cancellation of pressure in the spatial part of the metric.
  • Others propose that the cancellation may stem from the specific choice of coordinates used in the Schwarzschild solution, suggesting that different coordinate choices could yield different dependencies on pressure.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about how the geometrical definition of the r-coordinate leads to the vanishing pressure term, linking it to the concept of mass defect and the relationship between nominal and actual volumes.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that A can be expressed as a function of both r and pressure, but due to the monotonic relationship between pressure and radius, it can also be expressed solely in terms of one variable.
  • One participant argues that the same reasoning about pressure dependence should apply to the time-component of the metric, B(r), which cannot be expressed without explicit pressure dependence.
  • A later reply suggests that the metric's relationship to the "excess radius" is directly tied to the 00-component of the Einstein tensor, indicating that pressure does not factor into this relationship.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of pressure in the metric components, with some asserting that pressure cancellation is coordinate-dependent while others challenge this notion. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of pressure on the time-component of the metric.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the relationship between pressure and the metric components, as well as the dependence on specific coordinate choices. Some mathematical steps and definitions remain unresolved.

Sonderval
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I'm looking influence of pressure on the general interior Schwarzschild metric (see for example the book by Weinberg, eq. 11.1.11 and 11.1.16.
The radial component of the metric (usually called A(r)) depends only on the mass included up to radius r
A(r) = \left(1-\frac{ 2G M(r)}{r}\right)^{-1}
For the time-component, there is a rather complicated differential equation that depends on pressure; which is what I expect due to the pressure from the Energy-Momentum-Tensor.
Is there a physical reason why the pressure cancels out in the spatial part of the metric?
I can see mathematically from the derivation of the equation that it does, but would like to know whether this can be explained in any intuitive way.
 
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Sonderval said:
Is there a physical reason why the pressure cancels out in the spatial part of the metric?

I think this is because of the particular choice of coordinates being made. The form of ##A(r)## that you give actually applies to any spherically symmetric, static geometry, if you define the radial coordinate ##r## in the way it's defined for Schwarzschild coordinates, i.e., so that the area of a 2-sphere at ##r## is ##4 \pi r^2##. But any other choice of coordinates will give a different form for ##g_{rr}##, which AFAIK will not, in general, depend only on ##M(r)## (or equivalently on density only, not pressure).
 
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@PeterDonis
I agree that the pressure dependence should not cancel in other r-coordinates.
However, I'm not totally sure I see how the purely geometrical fact that I define the r-coordinate using the surface relation (as done by Schwarzschild) causes the vanishing pressure term.
I suspect it is related to the fact that the mass defect can be calculated by the difference between "nominal volume" (using the standard sphere formula) and the actual volume (using the grr-term to integrate)., but I have no clear picture of this.
 
Sonderval said:
I'm not totally sure I see how the purely geometrical fact that I define the r-coordinate using the surface relation (as done by Schwarzschild) causes the vanishing pressure term.

Yes, this is a better way of phrasing the question since it treats ##r## not as a coordinate but as a geometric parameter describing the (square root of the) area of the 2-spheres.

Sonderval said:
I suspect it is related to the fact that the mass defect can be calculated by the difference between "nominal volume" (using the standard sphere formula) and the actual volume (using the grr-term to integrate)

I think this is correct.
 
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Assume that ##A## is a function of ##r## and ##p##, i.e., ##A = A \left( r , p \right)##. The solution is static and spherically symmetric, and hence, by the way the coordinates are chosen, ##p## is only a function of ##r##, i.e., ##p = p \left( r \right)##. Since ##p## is a monotonically decreasing function of ##r##, this function is invertible, and we can write ##r = r \left( p \right)##. Consequently, nothing is lost by writing either ##\tilde{A} \left( r \right) = A \left( r , p \left(r\right) \right)## or ##\tilde{A} \left( p \right) = A \left( r \left(p\right) , p \right)##.

In other words, because of the one-to-one relationship between ##r## and ##p##, it makes sense to express ##A## as a function of either of these quantities, as opposed to both.
 
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@Peter
Thanks for that.

@George Jones
I do not think this answers the question, because the same argument would apply to the tt-component of the metric which cannot be written in closed form without explicit pressure dependence. The A(r) relation is actually universal and holds for any matter or stellar model if I understand things correctly (which I may not...), whereas to solve for the tt-component ( usually called B(r)), you need a p(r)-equation.
 
So, finally I can answer my own question at least partly:
The metric inside of a mass is related to the "excess radius" (how much longer is the way through a sphere than expected from its circumference), and this is directly related to the 00-component of the Einstein-tensor. (See Feynman Lectures on Gravitation, Lecture 11.)
Since this is equal to the 00-component of the energy-momentum-tensor, no pressure is involved.
 

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