Intro to Physically Reasonable Waves on a String

  • Context: Insights 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Redbelly98
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Intro String Waves
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "physically reasonable waves on a string," exploring various physical constraints and experimental setups related to wave behavior. Participants share their experiences and methods, particularly in educational contexts, and consider the implications of different approaches to teaching and experimentation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses interest in feedback from physics teachers or students regarding setups that fall outside the "physically reasonable zone."
  • Another participant describes an alternative experimental method using electromagnetic force, involving a horseshoe magnet and a stretched steel wire, which allows for precise measurement of wavelengths.
  • There is a discussion about the clarity of diagrams in the referenced article, with one participant seeking clarification on the term "physically reasonable zone."
  • A participant reflects on the challenges of guiding students in choosing variable ranges for practical exercises, noting that many students prefer structured guidance over independent exploration.
  • Concerns are raised about the limitations of typical classroom experiments, with a suggestion that experiments should be designed iteratively based on realistic variable ranges.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the definition of the "physically reasonable zone" or the best approaches for guiding students in experiments. Multiple viewpoints on experimental methods and educational strategies are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the limitations of classroom time and student confidence in conducting independent investigations, which may affect the quality of experimental outcomes.

Redbelly98
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Insights Author
Messages
12,179
Reaction score
186

Attachments

  • StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    1.6 KB · Views: 258
  • StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    1.6 KB · Views: 249
  • StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    1.6 KB · Views: 251
  • StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    1.6 KB · Views: 260
  • StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    1.6 KB · Views: 261
  • StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    1.6 KB · Views: 609
  • StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    1.6 KB · Views: 222
  • StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    1.6 KB · Views: 185
  • StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    1.6 KB · Views: 252
  • StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    1.6 KB · Views: 128
  • StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    1.6 KB · Views: 233
  • StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    StandingWaveOnString_01.png
    1.6 KB · Views: 235
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Drakkith, berkeman, BvU and 5 others
Physics news on Phys.org
I'm particularly interested in hearing from physics teachers or students who have used these setups, especially if your setup was outside what I'm calling the "physically reasonable zone".
 
Redbelly98 said:
if your setup was outside what I'm calling the "physically reasonable zone".
I'm not sure what you mean by that expression, exactly but I have used an alternative method which might interest you. The method involves electromagnetic force. A nice beefy horseshoe magnet is placed with a stretched steel wire held between the poles. One end is fixed and the other is tensioned with a variable mass. A fairly powerful signal generator is connected across the ends of the wire. Not directly on the wire but to the fixing and pulley so that the excitation is 'clean' and can be applied at any point along the wire. I prefer this method because, unlike when the end of the string is moved, the precise wavelength can be measured because true Nodes can be seen at each end.
Good magnets are easily obtainable these days - much better ones than what I had available a few years ago and a standard School Oscillator will give you frequencies from a few Hz to a few tens of Hz.
Give it a go.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Redbelly98 and vanhees71
Oh, cool setup!
sophiecentaur said:
I'm not sure what you mean by that expression ...
I was referring to the two diagrams toward the of the article -- to see them, you'd need to click the "Continue reading" link. (Not sure if you didn't see the diagrams, or did see them and something still isn't clear about them.)
 
Redbelly98 said:
(Not sure if you didn't see the diagrams, or did see them and something still isn't clear about them
Ah yes - I see where you're coming from. now. Choosing suitable ranges of variables to present to students for practical exercises can be approached in two ways. you either tell them to look between specified limits or you tell them to find those limits. Personally, I always found it difficult to find students with enough confidence to do the latter. They always wanted guidance and we seldom had time to do any more than the basic experiment, followed by the customary graph and analysis. I sometimes wonder if it had anything to do with the religious basis on which the School was run - but that could be just me offloading some of my own guilt.
Afair, there were only one or two opportunities for extended investigations and there would only be the occasional student who would actually risk writing their own agenda. When that occurs, of course, it's great.
Spotting where the experiment breaks down - where the graph leaves the straight line, for instance is good for qualitative comments.

Earlier in life, as a Research Engineer, I was always coming across this sort of thing but I think experiments would have been run, using ranges of variables that were realistic, found during the experiment on an iterative basis (seat of pants, you could say).
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
10K