Undergrad Ionization and Nodes in the Hydrogen Wave Function

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The discussion centers on the behavior of the electron in the hydrogen atom's wave function, particularly regarding nodes where the radial wave function equals zero. It addresses how the electron can exist in these regions, suggesting that the uncertainty principle allows for its presence nearby, though not directly at the node. The speed of the electron during ionization is debated, with estimates around 0.01c, indicating that it cannot be precisely defined. Additionally, the conversation touches on the nature of the electron's wave function, emphasizing that without measurement, the concept of the electron's position is meaningless, and observing it alters its wave function. Overall, the intricacies of quantum mechanics reveal that the electron behaves more like a probability cloud than a definitive particle.
Jamison Lahman
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As you can see from figure 4.4 from Griffiths book on QM, the radial wave function of the hydrogen atom has clear points where ## |R_{nl} (r)|^2 = 0 ##. My question is three fold:
First, how is the electron able to traverse this region? My intuition is that with the uncertainty principle, the electron will only ever be observed at ##r \pm \Delta r## for which r satisfies ## |R_{nl} (r)|^2 = 0 ## though this is not as satisfying as I would like. Surely it would be possible (even if extraordinarily unlikely) to observe an electron at this specific point.
Second, how fast does the electron move during ionization? My initial guess was c since it is emitting/absorbing a photon, however ## v = \sqrt{\frac{2 E_k}{m_e}}=\sqrt{\frac{2 \times 13.6eV}{510eV/c^2}} \cong .008c ## which seems reasonable.
Third, is there a wave function for a transitioning electron? Perhaps ## P = \left< \psi' | Q | \psi \right>## where ##\psi'## and ##\psi## are the overall initial and final wave functions?
Thanks
 
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In those eigenstates, the electron does not move - it does not traverse anything.

Those eigenstates are only exact with a single point-like charge, an electron, and nothing else in the universe. Every external influence will disturb them and break the symmetry and the general zero-crossing.

Jamison Lahman said:
Second, how fast does the electron move during ionization?
The speed of an electron cannot be expressed as number. Changes in the wave function in the process of ionizing hydrogen might have something like 0.01 c as typical propagation speed, but I'm not sure how meaningful that is either.

You can calculate the wave function of an electron in the combination of the field from the nucleus and an external electromagnetic field. It will get a component that is still at the nucleus and a component that leaves the nucleus.
 
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mfb said:
In those eigenstates, the electron does not move - it does not traverse anything.
Could you expand a little more on this? Is this like the electron is a "cloud" and that the electron is somewhere there but not known until observed and the act of observing it alters where the node is and then the electron goes back to being a "cloud"?
The rest is clear. Thank you.
 
Jamison Lahman said:
and that the electron is somewhere there but not known until observed
No. Without a position measurement, "the position of the electron" is a meaningless concept (apart from "it is in this atom").

If you observe the position, you get a completely new wavefunction, localized at some random point. If you then stop interacting with it, the wavefunction will spread out again, but this time in a superposition of many energy eigenstates.
 
Time reversal invariant Hamiltonians must satisfy ##[H,\Theta]=0## where ##\Theta## is time reversal operator. However, in some texts (for example see Many-body Quantum Theory in Condensed Matter Physics an introduction, HENRIK BRUUS and KARSTEN FLENSBERG, Corrected version: 14 January 2016, section 7.1.4) the time reversal invariant condition is introduced as ##H=H^*##. How these two conditions are identical?

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