Is acceleration due to gravity a 4-vector?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of acceleration due to gravity in the context of general relativity, specifically whether it can be classified as a 4-vector. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of geodesics and the transformation properties of various terms involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the geodesic condition and questions whether the left-hand side can be considered a vector, given that the connection is not a tensor.
  • Another participant asserts that the expression for acceleration can be treated as a 4-vector, while the individual terms on the right-hand side do not transform as 4-vectors, yet their sum does.
  • A participant challenges the transformation properties of tangent vectors, arguing that the transformation of coordinates affects the derivatives and thus the classification of the second derivative.
  • Another participant counters by stating that the transformation of position vectors and tangent vectors are fundamentally different, highlighting an error in the previous reasoning regarding transformations.
  • Further elaboration is provided on the relationship between coordinate transformations and velocity transformations, emphasizing that they are not equivalent unless specific conditions are met.
  • A later reply indicates that one participant has resolved their confusion regarding the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the transformation properties of the terms involved and whether acceleration can be classified as a 4-vector. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of understanding the conditions under which transformations apply, particularly in nonlinear contexts, and the implications for the classification of vectors.

pellman
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We can write the geodesic condition as

[tex]\frac{d^2 x^\alpha}{d\tau^2}={-\Gamma^\alpha}_{\mu\nu}\frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau}\frac{dx^\nu}{d\tau}[/tex]

On the RHS we have two contravariant vectors ( or (0,1) tensors ) contracted with the connection. But the connection is NOT a tensor. So is the LHS a vector? And if so, how does that work?
 
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##a^{\mu} = \ddot{x}^{\mu} + \Gamma^{\mu}_{\alpha\beta}\dot{x}^{\alpha}\dot{x}^{\beta}## is a 4-vector but the two individual terms on the RHS are not 4-vectors. It's very easy to show that they both fail to transform as 4-vectors but that their sum does transform as a 4-vector.
 
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Thanks. Regarding [itex]\ddot{x}^\mu[/itex] ... where do I go wrong in the following?

Suppose we have a change of coordinates [itex]x^\mu={\Lambda^\mu}_\alpha x'^\alpha[/itex]. Elements of the tangent space are vectors and likewise transform according to [itex]V^\mu={\Lambda^\mu}_\alpha V'^\alpha[/itex]. In particular the tangent to a curve [itex]x^\mu(\tau)[/itex] is [itex]dx^\mu/d\tau[/itex] which as a tangent vector transforms as

[tex]\frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau} ={\Lambda^\mu}_\alpha \frac{dx'^\alpha}{d\tau}[/tex]

but if we take the derivative of both sides of

[itex]x^\mu={\Lambda^\mu}_\alpha x'^\alpha[/itex]

we get

[itex]\frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau}=\frac{d}{d\tau}\left({\Lambda^\mu}_\alpha x'^\alpha\right)[/itex]

This is equivalent to the previous expression only if [itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}{\Lambda^\mu}_\alpha =0[/itex]. In this case if we take the second derivative, we get

[tex]\frac{d^2 x^\mu}{d\tau^2} ={\Lambda^\mu}_\alpha \frac{d^2 x'^\alpha}{d\tau^2}[/tex]

and so [itex]\ddot{x}^\mu[/itex] transforms as a vector.

?
 
##x^{\mu}## are not position vectors. The transformation ##x^{\mu} \rightarrow x^{\mu'}(x^{\nu})## will not be the same as the transformation matrix ##V^{\mu} \rightarrow V^{\mu'}## which is where your error is; in fact if we write the former transformation as ##x^{\mu'} = x^{\mu'}(x^{\nu})## then ##V^{\mu'} = \frac{\partial x^{\mu'}(x^{\nu})}{\partial x^{\mu}}V^{\mu}## so clearly we are talking about different transformations for the two.
 
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pellman said:
but if we take the derivative of both sides of

[itex]x^\mu={\Lambda^\mu}_\alpha x'^\alpha[/itex]

we get

[itex]\frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau}=\frac{d}{d\tau}\left({\Lambda^\mu}_\alpha x'^\alpha\right)[/itex]

This is equivalent to the previous expression only if [itex]\frac{d}{d\tau}{\Lambda^\mu}_\alpha =0[/itex].

To simplify the notation, I'm going to drop the indices. It should be clear how to put them back.

In general, if you converting from a coordinate [itex]x'[/itex] to a coordinate [itex]x[/itex], then it's a nonlinear, continuous, invertible function:

[itex]x = F(x')[/itex]

So,

[itex]\frac{dx}{d \tau} = \frac{\partial F}{\partial x'} \frac{dx'}{d\tau}[/itex]

So even if [itex]F(x')[/itex] is nonlinear, the relationship between velocities is linear:

[itex]\frac{dx}{d \tau} =\Lambda \frac{dx'}{d\tau}[/itex]

where [itex]\Lambda = \frac{\partial F}{\partial x'}[/itex]

But note: the transformation between coordinates is not the same as the transformation between velocities:

[itex]\frac{dx}{d \tau} =\Lambda \frac{dx'}{d\tau}[/itex] versus [itex]x = F(x')[/itex]

The only time that you can use the same matrix [itex]\Lambda[/itex] to transform coordinates or velocities is when:

[itex]F(x') = \Lambda x'[/itex]

which is only possible when [itex]\frac{\partial \Lambda}{\partial x'} = 0[/itex]
 
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I got this one straight now, guys. Thanks!
 

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