News Is Anyone Truly in Control Amidst the Ukrainian Crisis?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Borek
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary
The discussion highlights the chaotic situation in Ukraine, questioning who truly controls the protests and the government amidst escalating violence, particularly in Kiev. It notes the deep cultural and political divisions within Ukraine, with significant pro-Russian sentiments in the east and pro-European aspirations in the west. The conversation reflects on the lack of strong U.S. support for the protesters compared to past interventions during the Orange Revolution. Participants express skepticism about the motivations behind the protests, suggesting they may be influenced by foreign interests and local radicals. The overall sentiment is one of uncertainty regarding the future of Ukraine, with concerns about potential power struggles and external influences.
  • #781
Czcibor said:
You pointed out that Russia would not back down.
"We will not back down", or something like it, is a cliche from blow hard totalitarians. I'm pretty sure some googling will reveal something similar from Milosevic, Saddam Hussein, Noriega, Gaddafi, etc.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #782
I think 2017 would be a good year for a peoples' revolution in Russia - fitting for a 100 year anniversary - but this time it should be the people, nonviolently through the right to vote for a representative government, rather than an oligarch.

Kasparov - "Putin is the problem"
http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2014-12-17/garry-kasparov-i-see-no-exit-strategy-for-vladimir-putin
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Likes Borg
  • #783
Parliament votes to repeal "nonalignment" policy.
The Parliament, firmly controlled by a pro-Western majority, voted overwhelmingly 303 to 8, to repeal a 2010 law that codified a policy of “nonalignment,” and to instead pursue closer military and strategic ties with the West.

Reminds me of this. :)

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes mheslep
  • #784
Paradoxically, I'd would not put too much attention to that voting. From practical perspective Ukraine is lost for Russia from a while, presumably from the moment when little green men infested Crimea.

As more interesting, one of allies of Moscow (Kazkhstan) decided to sell coal to Ukraine:
http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/economic/241252.html
And their president proclaimed that officially before official meeting in Moscow with Putin. Don't he get it that Russia haven't sent its mercs to coal mines in Donbass, to let her ally undermine whole offensive? ;)

From good news for Putin it seems that ruble strengthened.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-central-bank-stepped-in-to-support-ruble-1419321261

However it seems through central bank offensive, plus forcing gov owned companies and oligarchs to sell their foreign currencies.
 
  • #785
There seem to be serious energy problems in Ukraine, including blackouts. (I quote article because of accesibility problems)

Gas in Ukraine
On another front
Ukraine needs energy reform to fix the economy and weaken Russia’s grip

GAS is flowing again from Russia to Ukraine, but blackouts have hit factories and homes. Ukraine’s prime minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, says Ukraine’s independence is compromised by its energy dependence on Russia. Mykhailo Gonchar of the Centre for Global Studies in Kiev claims that in its battle in Ukraine, Russia has opened an energy front where it has big advantages—thanks to Ukraine’s own failings.

Until the 1970s Ukraine powered the Soviet Union. But since independence in 1991, inefficiency and falling production have left it reliant on Russia. The problems are crystallised in Naftogaz, a state-controlled gas giant with a bigger budget deficit than Ukraine. Ukraine has spent $6.4 billion keeping the company afloat this year, much of it going to Russia’s Gazprom.

After Naftogaz was created in 1998, it soon became a fount of corruption. Artificially low prices and patchy metering offer ample pickings. Opaque finances and central control over extraction, transport, storage and sales allow rent-seekers to act with impunity. Yevgeny Bakulin, who led Naftogaz under President Viktor Yanukovych, is under investigation for corruption. Yet he has won a seat in parliament for the Opposition Bloc led by Yuri Boiko, another former Naftogaz official.

The new energy officials, including Naftogaz’s 36-year-old boss, Andriy Kobolev, are an improvement. Mr Kobolev is opening up the company’s books. He has secured reverse-flow supplies from Slovakia, a deal for imports from Norway and an international loan to refurbish ageing pipelines. But Ukraine’s energy oligarchs will complain, and some wonder if Mr Kobolev has the strength to take them on.

Prices need to be raised to market levels, with subsidies only for the neediest. Energy conglomerates, including Naftogaz, must be broken up. Ukraine has to do this both to balance its budget and as a member of the European Energy Community treaty. Mr Kobolev argues for shock therapy. “It’s better to cut off the dog’s tail all at once,” he says. This requires politicians to be “brave enough” to deliver unpleasant news, which Mr Yatsenyuk promises to do.

Yet Mr Yatsenyuk has ducked hard decisions on energy. Inflation ate up an initial price increase demanded by the IMF. Rather than putting up prices again, Ukraine pushed up taxes on private producers. Mr Yatsenyuk told big manufacturers to purchase gas exclusively from Naftogaz, strengthening its monopoly under the pretext of increasing revenue. “They robbed Peter to pay Putin,” says one foreign diplomat, saying this amounts to “two own goals in a game they can’t afford to lose.” A third was a plan to import coal from South Africa. The deal, meant to offset disruption in supplies from eastern Ukraine, ended in another scandal over the coal’s quality.

With separatists in Ukraine’s east controlling the biggest coal mines, Ukraine has been forced to buy coal and electricity directly from Russia. Otherwise power shortages could have been devastating, a fact Russia underlined by holding up a coal train at the border. Ukraine’s new energy minister, Volodymyr Demchishin, is hoping to retrieve coal from storehouses in the besieged city of Debaltseve.

Meanwhile Ukraine could raise output at its nuclear power stations—if they are safe. An emergency shutdown knocked out a plant in southern Ukraine last month, awakening ghosts of Chernobyl. Worse, Ukraine imports most nuclear fuel from Russia, despite increased co-operation with Westinghouse, an American firm. And Ukraine relies on Russia to store nuclear waste. As Mr Gonchar notes, with so many pressure points, the Kremlin does not need troops to “strangle Kiev”.
http://www.economist.com/news/europ...economy-and-weaken-russias-grip-another-front
 
  • #786
Outraging Russia, Ukraine takes big step toward NATO
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-parliament-takes-historic-step-toward-nato-102848451.html
Kiev (AFP) - Ukraine took a historic step toward NATO on Tuesday in a parliamentary vote that stoked Russia's anger ahead of talks on ending the ex-Soviet state's separatist war.

Lawmakers in the government-controlled chamber overwhelmingly adopted a bill dropping Ukraine's non-aligned status -- a classification assumed by states that refuse to join military alliances and thus play no part in wars.
. . . . .
 
  • #787
voko said:
That misrepresents, to put this mildly, the original report by TASS: http://tass.ru/en/russia/765766

So, not "Russia's railway authorities", but merely a train operator. That report was followed by another:

http://tass.ru/en/world/765988

It seems to be quite popular business strategy nowadays because Ukrainian Railways canceled their connections with Crimea.
https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraine-cuts-power-cancels-trains-to-crimea-376191.html

Anyway, how is going bridge building that Putin promised when he annexed this peninsula? :D

Visa and Mastercard also canceled their service for Crimea because of US sanctions:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/26/russia-crisis-visa-crimea-idUSL6N0UA0XJ20141226
 
  • #788
Sorry, had to do a clean up.
 
  • #789
Alexander Bednov "Batman", one of those so "separatist" leaders was assassinated by different group of "separatists".

"Kremlin-backed Plotnitsky began eliminating pro-Russian commanders of Lugansk People's Republic. First one to go was Col. Alexander Bednov who was assassinated today along with his fighters. According to the remaining members of the GBR "Batman" unit, the next in the target list are commanders Dremov"


(Event seems to be neglected in English language part of internet, I can give links to mainstream Polish newspapers, if anyone wants properly respectable source and use google translate)Because of lack of answer concerning the bridge, I had to look it up:

"A government official told journalists in late August that the general contractor would be the Stoytransgaz company. An announcement on the project’s website later confirmed that a general contractor would be chosen without open bidding.

Recently, however, a new rumor has surfaced: that Stroytransgaz could end up being the subcontractor and that the general contractor will be the Federal Agency for Special Construction. The new scenario, should it prove to be true, may actually work out better for Stroytransgaz. Major Russian construction companies have in large part been wary of the high-profile Kerch Strait, which they see as a potential liability."

"Plans as they currently stand call for the bridge to be built by 2018, with a total budget of around $5.3 billion."

http://www.worldcrunch.com/business...ympics-bridge-building/c2s17373/#.VKg8Bc3d9wA

Amnesty International accuses pro-Ukrainian volunteers of blocking humanitarian aid:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/eastern-ukraine-humanitarian-disaster-looms-food-aid-blocked-2014-12-23
(AI seems to "forget" in whole article from where the aid come from and why Ukrainians can not thank Russians for their blockade in exactly the same way)

Opinion: OK so Putin conquered that but it seems that he is unwilling to actually maintain what he just conquered.
 
  • #790
Czcibor said:
A "Kremlin-backed Plotnitsky began eliminating pro-Russian commanders of Lugansk People's Republic. First one to go was Col. Alexander Bednov who was assassinated today along with his fighters. According to the remaining members of the GBR "Batman" unit, the next in the target list are commanders Dremov"

Is that a Soviet communist party star on the hat of that soldier standing behind the commander?
 
  • #792


"At the frontline, near Donetsk, a volunteer from the "Crimea" company shares an uneasy history of Ukrainian Muslims and of their battle for acceptance in the war in Eastern Ukraine."
 
  • Like
Likes mheslep
  • #793


Separatists unload weapons (likely MLRS rockets) from a truck. You can take a guess where the truck came from. Mars, probably, because Russia absolutely denies supplying them.

No translation, unfortunately. They are saying "these are New Year gifts for Poroshenko, Yulia-jerk,... for Senya [Arseniy Yatsnuk]...".
 
  • #794


A "separatist" unit which consists mostly of... Chechens (so much for "it's only locals fighting there"), arrived to Donetsk from Krasnodon (a smaller Donbass town) and demand that a soldier from another separatist unit is given to them to be executed. They say he has killed one of their men two days ago.
 
  • #796
Czcibor said:
Seems like big propaganda victory for Russian mercenaries, after heavy fight they captured ruins of Donetsk airport.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ked-separatists-seize-donetsk-airport-ukraine

This location become a somewhat ridiculous "symbolic" battle. The airport had two large buildings, a tower, and a number of auxiliaries. And due to particulars of surrounding terrain, all resupply routes to it are under separatists' fire. It's a salient of sorts.

But it so happened that it was held by well-prepared troops, including volunteer battalions, so separatists had a few humiliating defeats there trying to storm it. And it become sort of a legend, all "war junkies" now want to be there, or at least want to be on artillery positions which cover it, or tank regiments which also cover it.

By now both buildings are extremely heavily damaged. The tower has finally collapsed two days ago. Both of them, being complex, large, 3-4 story buildings, already had seen both sides occupying parts of them at one point of another.

I'd prefer this particular silliness to stop, but it seems impossible by now to convince some people that these ruins aren't worth fighting for - the people do die there every day. Yesterday there were reports of 240mm mortars being used by separatists - that's big stuff. And "Pions", Ukrainian self-propelled 203mm howitzers, are there.

Last reports I read were that today's shelling was mad, and Ukrainians again lost more than half of the complex (2 dead, 7 wounded), but they claim they counterattacked again.

I'd be quite skeptical of such claims... but this did happen in the past, not once, but about three times in last few months. Need to wait for more info.
 
  • #797


If you have read about Grad shelling which hit very close to a bus and killed about a dozen civilians, this is the best available video on youtube. Russians claim that "ukrainian nazis did it with a claymore". Sigh...
 
  • #798
A few days ago there was a bit of fuss about new uniform of Russian Post (national postal operator). I didn't think about it much (it could be a fake), but now the story got confirmed and moreover, it become clear why they decided to change the uniform in the first place.

The old uniform was in yellow-blue, which is similar to Ukrainian flag (see picture).

269717_original.jpg


Can't have that. So, the new uniform is...

1.jpg
2.jpg
3.jpg
 
  • #799
Donetsk airport facts.

Google search for its images:
https://www.google.com/search?q=донецкий+аэропорт&tbm=isch

Google maps link:
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.0679412,37.7403702,1687m/data=!3m1!1e3
"New Terminal" is a big rectangular building with five passenger bridges. Old terminal is the next building to the East (right).
The tower is a circular structure West-west-north from terminals.

South face of New Terminal before fighting:
11.jpg

The same location, as it looked 2-3 months ago:
22.jpg


Tower in late November:
33.jpg

It finally fell this week.
 
  • #800
Drone video from 2015-01-15
Drone comes from the West, files over new terminal, then there is scene change, after which it apparently flies from East to West, over old terminal, then new one, then flies to the location of destroyed tower.

 
  • #801
nikkkom said:
A few days ago there was a bit of fuss about new uniform of Russian Post (national postal operator). I didn't think about it much (it could be a fake), but now the story got confirmed and moreover, it become clear why they decided to change the uniform in the first place.

The old uniform was in yellow-blue, which is similar to Ukrainian flag (see picture).
Striking resemblance to Nazi SS uniforms. Oblivious postal volk?
 
  • #802
nikkkom said:
Donetsk airport facts.

Google search for its images:
https://www.google.com/search?q=донецкий+аэропорт&tbm=isch

Google maps link:
https://www.google.com/maps/@48.0679412,37.7403702,1687m/data=!3m1!1e3
"New Terminal" is a big rectangular building with five passenger bridges. Old terminal is the next building to the East (right).
The tower is a circular structure West-west-north from terminals.

South face of New Terminal before fighting:
View attachment 77763
The same location, as it looked 2-3 months ago:
View attachment 77764

Tower in late November:
View attachment 77765
It finally fell this week.
Whew, that tower looks like it's made of Jenga blocks!
 
  • #803
That air control tower was likely hit by tank fire, maybe infantry carried missiles. I don't think indirect fire weapons would do that to a steel reinforced concrete tower. The point being, do the Russians have tanks that far in Ukraine (~100 miles)?
 
  • #804
mheslep said:
That air control tower was likely hit by tank fire, maybe infantry carried missiles. I don't think indirect fire weapons would do that to a steel reinforced concrete tower. The point being, do the Russians have tanks that far in Ukraine (~100 miles)?

Here's a video from July 2014 where they already use tanks:



Now (January 2015) tanks are routinely in use. Here is a December video with five tanks at once.



Column of six tanks in November:



Six tanks and about a dozen artillery pieces:



You thought Ukrainians are exaggerating when they say it's a full-blown undeclared war?
 
Last edited:
  • #805
As to "what hit the tower": it's not a secret:



 
  • #806
I read today that Lugansk is reparing a few SU-25 jets in addition to a L-29 trainer and choppers
 
  • #807
arist said:
I read today that Lugansk is reparing a few SU-25 jets in addition to a L-29 trainer and choppers

Those "Lugansk repairmen" can do miracles. Apparently they assembled hundreds of tanks, MLRS, artillery pieces from rusty old car parts. More miracles: those MLRS fire volley after volley of rockets (each Grad holds 40 rockets), where those rockets appear from? I tell you: all homemade by coal miners! ;) ;) ;)
 
  • #808
It seems that there is a stand off and Ukraine mobilized some units. Russia of course claim that it did not mobilize any additional, however they also claim not sending there any units at all from the beginning.

http://www.dw.de/russias-lavrov-ukraine-troop-mobilization-wont-help-peace/a-18195973

Our (Polish) foreign affairs minister achieved a rare honour of making Russian foreign affairs minister furious. He mentioned (the 70th anniversary is coming, Putin is not invited, while Poroschenko is) that Auschwitz was liberated by Ukrainians. Technically speaking Red Army unit that captured that town was 100th Rifle Division "Lviv", so it looks as something made of Ukrainians.

In official propaganda Russian mention that we're ungrateful for being "liberated" by them from German occupation. The problem is that the SU used cannon fodder from all over area which it captured, while demand that all glory fall only on Russia. So now it seems that Poland is going to be grateful for this liberation just it would exactly contrary to Russian interests.

EDIT:
"DONETSK, Ukraine – Pro-Russian separatists Thursday, January 22, paraded around 20 captive Ukrainian soldiers through the streets of the rebel stronghold city of Donetsk in a humiliating display hours after 13 people died in a horrendous trolleybus shelling."

Means:
-Putin's men committed another war crime (Geneva convention forbids that)
-It means that the airport as such was captured not much earlier (21?), because otherwise Russians would have done a while before
http://www.rappler.com/world/regions/europe/81687-rebels-ukrainian-pow-donetsk
 
Last edited:
  • #809
Airport terminals are not held by Ukrainian forces anymore.
 
  • #810
nikkkom said:
Airport terminals are not held by Ukrainian forces anymore.

It seems being part of a bigger offensive, practically on all front line. Situation for 16th December and 22nd January.
z17294354Q,Porownanie_sytuacji_w_Donbasie_16_grudnia_i_22_stycznia.jpg
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 235 ·
8
Replies
235
Views
23K
Replies
33
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
5K
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
11K
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
10
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K