Is High School Physics Too Focused on Theory Over Mathematics?

[mikelepore]

We just have to memorize formulae, we aren't even required to know the derivation.

In New York this reference table giving all the formulas is handed out.

http://www.p12.nysed.gov/apda/reftable/physics-rt/physics06tbl.pdf

 

[XtremePhysX]

In New York this reference table giving all the formulas is handed out.

http://www.p12.nysed.gov/apda/reftable/physics-rt/physics06tbl.pdf

LOL
They hand out a formula sheet here too, but it doesn't cover all formulae I think, I never use it to be honest.
The one you posted covers almost everything you need.
Mathematics isn't a compulsory course is Australia, only English is compulsory so I think that's why they increase the amount of theory.
I realized that worded responses aren't rote learning at all because you need a good understanding of the concepts in order to properly answer a worded response question.
For example, a question asking you to explain the sling shot effect. There is no way you can answer it without an understanding of relativity, conservation laws, Newtons lows etc... so I'm pretty happy with the structure of the physics course, the only thing I'm not happy with, is as I said the mathematical content, which is unnderstandable since mathematics isn't compulsory (it should be IMO)

 

[dawn_pingpong]

Fair enough.

Different things for different people of course but I can think of many examples where studying the history of a subject can be as inspiring or even more inspiring than the subject; especially amongst groups that are a minority in science e.g. women.

HEY HEY don't be discriminatory:P I'm studying in a girl's school now and currently studying electricity and magnetism, which is a whole lot on concepts (no formulas no calculations no nothing), and my classmates all complain why it is so annoying, because we love calculations! (well majority, not everyone obviously). And then we learn about fuse ratings and how to on/off the electrical mains in our homes, which is a bit of commonsensical knowledge...

I don't really like our physics modules now either (and I think I'm around the same grade as XtremePhysX?). At least I think last year was better, when in dynamics at least we get to calculate E=mgh or whatever, those simple stuff. This year for us is all explanation questions, which means that (1) I can't score cos I can't explain well enough (2) it gives me no motivation to study physics. For example, there was this question in one of our exams: explain what happens for a thermometer when (1) the bore is twice the orginal size, (2) the length is increased (3) blah blah. This question was 6 marks I think, and it was 1/6 of the total score of the whole test. And some of the people who are not good at physics, just exam smart and can memorise word for word score well (not jealous or anything)

While I wholeheartedly agree that concepts are absolutely important, physics deprived of all math is just... !@#$% Right here in our school the syllabus is a bit weird: like in year 7, we have not even learned how to solve linear algebra equations, then we learn about kinematics and the formulas. And for us here, there is no deviations no nothing. And they don't even teach you any formulas in the first place (maybe the most advanced I can think of is heat=mc deltaT? the kinematics equations, all the projectile motion ones, are just optional, means we don't even touch on them). We go for the A level, which surprisingly contains all the calculations like KE=eV=hf-work function, and the dynamics portions, and it's common that some of the students suffer a bit-the jump is just too great. Which is a bit weird.

Anyway there is this advanced class in my school which teaches you a lot more stuff like more advanced fluid dynamics and quantum, but sadly I'm not in as I'm already in Chem...

I like physics, because it's fun, but is very very bad at problem solving. Like really. I just can't whack the question and try to solve it for hours. I guess just have to practice... I bought a 2nd hand university textbook for 30 bucks (college physics-8th or 9th edition I think), and also has the Halliday/Resnick one (ebook version-someone gave it to me). A bit not understandable as there's too much calculus and stuff so I dose out, but not bad for reference. I think XtremePhysX you can just go to a 2nd hand shop near your house and see what they have to offer? It's much much cheaper and worth it and you can get to flip through to see which style you like too. Anddd... go watch the youtube videos and lectures! I think they are very good, especially for me who understand better if someone explains it to me. Coffee high!

 

[XtremePhysX]

HEY HEY don't be discriminatory:P I'm studying in a girl's school now and currently studying electricity and magnetism, which is a whole lot on concepts (no formulas no calculations no nothing), and my classmates all complain why it is so annoying, because we love calculations! (well majority, not everyone obviously). And then we learn about fuse ratings and how to on/off the electrical mains in our homes, which is a bit of commonsensical knowledge...

I don't really like our physics modules now either (and I think I'm around the same grade as XtremePhysX?). At least I think last year was better, when in dynamics at least we get to calculate E=mgh or whatever, those simple stuff. This year for us is all explanation questions, which means that (1) I can't score cos I can't explain well enough (2) it gives me no motivation to study physics. For example, there was this question in one of our exams: explain what happens for a thermometer when (1) the bore is twice the orginal size, (2) the length is increased (3) blah blah. This question was 6 marks I think, and it was 1/6 of the total score of the whole test. And some of the people who are not good at physics, just exam smart and can memorise word for word score well (not jealous or anything)

While I wholeheartedly agree that concepts are absolutely important, physics deprived of all math is just... !@#$% Right here in our school the syllabus is a bit weird: like in year 7, we have not even learned how to solve linear algebra equations, then we learn about kinematics and the formulas. And for us here, there is no deviations no nothing. And they don't even teach you any formulas in the first place (maybe the most advanced I can think of is heat=mc deltaT? the kinematics equations, all the projectile motion ones, are just optional, means we don't even touch on them). We go for the A level, which surprisingly contains all the calculations like KE=eV=hf-work function, and the dynamics portions, and it's common that some of the students suffer a bit-the jump is just too great. Which is a bit weird.

Anyway there is this advanced class in my school which teaches you a lot more stuff like more advanced fluid dynamics and quantum, but sadly I'm not in as I'm already in Chem...

I like physics, because it's fun, but is very very bad at problem solving. Like really. I just can't whack the question and try to solve it for hours. I guess just have to practice... I bought a 2nd hand university textbook for 30 bucks (college physics-8th or 9th edition I think), and also has the Halliday/Resnick one (ebook version-someone gave it to me). A bit not understandable as there's too much calculus and stuff so I dose out, but not bad for reference. I think XtremePhysX you can just go to a 2nd hand shop near your house and see what they have to offer? It's much much cheaper and worth it and you can get to flip through to see which style you like too. Anddd... go watch the youtube videos and lectures! I think they are very good, especially for me who understand better if someone explains it to me. Coffee high!

I absolutely hate this!
Happens in chemistry. Some people just rote learn everything and learn techniques to get "top marks" it is like cheap tricks etc...
I think high school exams should not be a measure of you "exam techniques" but a measure of how smart and hard working you are.
Fore example, some times there is a really silly 6 mark question asking you to draw a "table" and then you lose 3 marks for not putting a title for the table, the table is not neat etc...
I want the exams to be EXTREMELY hard and have extremely complicated questions that actually test you intelligence and knowledge not how careful you are and how you can write down things you memorised.

 

[dawn_pingpong]

Fore example, some times there is a really silly 6 mark question asking you to draw a "table" and then you lose 3 marks for not putting a title for the table, the table is not neat etc...
I want the exams to be EXTREMELY hard and have extremely complicated questions that actually test you intelligence and knowledge not how careful you are and how you can write down things you memorised.

Absolutely! I always cross my fingers and hope that there will be loads of hard calculations. Hehe. I think physics is not as bad compared to biology (at least in high school I think). For bio, there are questions on Mendel genetics, where you have to draw a punnet square. And one question is 10 marks! Before the exam, the teacher will break it down for you, and tell you this is 0.5 mark, another part is 0.5 mark etc etc: there's formula (like you just write the word "gametes" at the top right hand corner, you get 1 point...)! And if you memorise the formula, you will definitely get full marks! I think this sort of exams don't even test your understanding, just purely how well you can memorise! So nonsensical. There is no point at all! Don't even talk about a line. Geddit?

I believe it's now 1am in Australia too:P

 

[thegreenlaser]

@ OP: One of the main reasons you don't see a lot of derivations in high school is that they're assuming you don't know any calculus or linear algebra yet, and those are used to derive the vast majority of formulas used at a high school level.

 

[bigerst]

I want the exams to be EXTREMELY hard and have extremely complicated questions that actually test you intelligence and knowledge not how careful you are and how you can write down things you memorised.

i absolutely agree, I am sick and tired of questions like "explain Newton's third law" or "explain why momentum is conserved" or "explain the energy transformations of an elevator" PSHHHFFFT to answer those questions you just need to BS stuff. they should make physics more problem solving based and harder. they should introduce the interesting aspects of physics instead of memorizing and BS
definitely more math, eg "what is the force of attraction betweeen the Earth's northern and southern hemisphere"

 

[WannabeNewton]

Do the problems in the book An Introduction to Mechanics by Kleppner and Kolenkow; they would be to your liking but the importance there is the physics not the math which is appropriate for intro mechanics. I don't think you understand the implications of "EXTREMELY" hard physics questions. Anyways, high school physics courses don't go beyond calc 2 in math material which isn't very advanced at all. If you want more then learn it yourself.

 

[Mmm_Pasta]

I'm not sure why so many are bashing conceptual questions. Calculations aren't always hard, and conceptual questions aren't always easy. Realistically, there isn't enough time to do very hard questions on an exam. There's also a difference between something that is actually difficult and something that is time consuming. For example: it takes me pages of work to solve a differential equation using variation of parameters, however, it is really easy to do, but I have ran into problems that can take less than a page, but take a while to think of ways to solve. Some of these problems have been conceptual. Many are both conceptual and calculation.

 

[WannabeNewton]

I'm not sure why so many are bashing conceptual questions. Calculations aren't always hard, and conceptual questions aren't always easy. Realistically, there isn't enough time to do very hard questions on an exam. There's also a difference between something that is actually difficult and something that is time consuming. For example: it takes me pages of work to solve a differential equation using variation of parameters, however, it is really easy to do, but I have ran into problems that can take less than a page, but take a while to think of ways to solve. Some of these problems have been conceptual. Many are both conceptual and calculation.

Exactly. The real test of understanding is in the concepts not chugging out calculations. This is why I like math textbooks better as a whole because they all contain largely proof problems which require understanding (and don't have much annoying calculations) and I have micromass to blame for that =D. But again the book I mentioned above is quite different from books like Halliday (horribly tedious book with no insight that will eviscerate your interest in the subject in my opinion); It DOES test your conceptual knowledge\understanding of Newtonian mechanics.

 

[XtremePhysX]

I'm not against conceptual questions as long as they are difficult.
I says I don't like easy, time consuming, questions like drawing a graph that's worth 6 marks and then lose a bunch of marks for silly mistakes.
Hard questions are better since they test you understanding and intelligence so it is more fair for people who have the knowledge and work hard.