Is it possible to distinguish between pure and mixed states?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the possibility of distinguishing between ensembles of pure states and mixed states in quantum mechanics, particularly in the context of spin measurements of particles. Participants explore theoretical implications, measurement techniques, and the relationship between these states, including potential connections to black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that it is not possible to distinguish between pure and mixed states using a single observable, suggesting that measurements along different axes are necessary.
  • Others argue that if the mixed state is maximally mixed, it cannot be distinguished from a pure state ensemble with equal probabilities for spin up and down, as they would have the same density matrix.
  • A later reply questions the interpretation of the ensembles, emphasizing that an ensemble of mixed states can be viewed as a combination of pure states, raising issues about the information content of each state.
  • Participants discuss the implications of John Baez's perspective on pure states being described by wavefunctions and mixed states by density matrices, with some asserting that this distinction relates to information loss in quantum systems.
  • There is a contention regarding the measurement process and whether the preparation of the ensembles affects their distinguishability, with calls for specificity in how mixed states are prepared.
  • Some participants express confusion over terminology, particularly regarding the use of "up" and "down" in the context of spin measurements and how this relates to the ability to distinguish between the two ensembles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether it is possible to distinguish between pure and mixed states. Multiple competing views remain regarding the conditions under which such distinctions can be made, particularly concerning measurement techniques and the nature of the states involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in understanding the preparation processes of mixed states and the implications of density matrices versus wavefunctions. There are unresolved questions about the relationship between quantum states and black hole physics, particularly in the context of the information paradox.

  • #31
Larry Pendarvis said:
Is it possible to prepare an ensemble of particles that are in some kind of Indeterminate spin state?

Others have given various ways of doing this; but none of these will give you what you said you wanted in Ensemble B, namely a "mixed" state. A mixed state is something different from what you are calling an "indeterminate" state. And the original quote you gave regarding the black hole information paradox was talking about mixed states (vs. pure states), not about indeterminate states (as opposed to determinate states).

If you still haven't picked up on my advice to consult a textbook and learn the technical meanings of all these terms you are using, do so. Once you have done so, please start a new thread if you still have questions about pure vs. mixed states. This thread is closed.
 
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