Is it possible to read higher temperatures than mediums?

  • Context: Undergrad 
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of measuring a higher temperature of a metal immersed in water than the water's temperature itself. Participants explore the implications of such a measurement in the context of thermal equilibrium and the laws of thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant reports a measurement of 90 degrees for a metal immersed in water at 50 degrees, questioning the validity of this observation.
  • Another participant suggests that the proximity of atoms in the metal could explain the speed of heating but not the temperature discrepancy.
  • Concerns are raised about the reasonableness of the measurement unless a chemical reaction is occurring.
  • It is proposed that the only scenario where the metal could be hotter is if it was initially at a higher temperature and equilibrium had not been reached, otherwise it contradicts the second law of thermodynamics.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the instructor's claims, suggesting possible issues with the thermometer or thermocouple used for the measurement.
  • Clarification is made that the thermometer in question was a thermocouple connected inside the metallic cylinder, not an infrared thermometer.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express skepticism about the validity of the temperature readings, with multiple competing views on the reasons behind the observed measurements and the implications for thermodynamic principles. The discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the potential for measurement errors due to equipment malfunction, such as a broken thermometer or thermocouple, and the need for thermal equilibrium to be established for accurate temperature readings.

Thermo
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I know it sounds nonsense but our lab research assistant said today we could read higher temperature of a metal inside a bath than that of water when it was immersed. For example water is steady and 50 degrees and we read a 90 degrees of an immersed metal. And we observed that. How can it be possible?
 
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He said because its atoms are closer to each other. But that explains the speed of heating not the temperature.
 
Unless there is some kind of chemical reaction taking place, that doesn't seem reasonable to me.
 
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It makes sense only if the metal was initially hotter and equilibrium has not been reached yet. Otherwise, it is a clear violation of the second law.
 
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DrClaude said:
It makes sense only if the metal was initially hotter and equilibrium has not been reached yet. Otherwise, it is a clear violation of the second law.
No metal was at room temperature and I am sure the room was not 90 celsius degrees.

Then our instructor was high or something...
 
Thermo said:
Then our instructor was high or something...
If you just knew some of the silly things lab instructors told me when I was a student...
 
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Hahaha yea only logical expression and also thermometer-thermocouple was possibly broken.
 
Thermo said:
Hahaha yea only logical expression and also thermometer-thermocouple was possibly broken.
What did it read when you pointed it at the palm of your hand? :smile:
 
Don't know exactly. I didn't touch it some other students did. But it was at 24 degrees which was the room temperature before it was immersed into bath. Water in bath was at 80 btw.
 
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Oh, it was a contact thermometer. I had assumed it was an IR imaging thermometer.
 
  • #11
It was a thermocouple connected inside the metallic cylinder.
 

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