Is Momentum Conserved When a Spring Unloads Between Two Masses?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of momentum and kinetic energy in a system of two masses connected by a string with a compressed spring between them. Participants explore the implications of cutting the string and the subsequent unloading of the spring, focusing on the conditions under which momentum and kinetic energy are conserved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the total momentum before the string is cut is zero, leading to the conclusion that the final momentums of the two masses must also sum to zero.
  • Another participant agrees with the momentum argument but points out that the equality of kinetic energies is only valid if the masses are equal.
  • A participant provides equations relating the momentums and kinetic energies of the two masses, indicating a need for further steps to solve for velocities.
  • There is a suggestion to leave the elastic potential energy as an unknown in the equations, indicating uncertainty about how to proceed without its value.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the conservation of momentum but disagree on the conditions under which kinetic energies are equal. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of unequal masses and the next steps in the mathematical analysis.

Contextual Notes

There is a lack of consensus on the relationship between kinetic energies and mass equality, and participants express uncertainty about how to incorporate elastic potential energy into their calculations.

kyrillos
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Let's say there are two masses, attached together by a string, and there's a compressed spring in between them. When the string in between is cut off, the spring unloads, pushing both masses in opposite directions.

My thinking:
1. Their momentums will be equal to each other.
Their momentum before the string is cut is equal to zero (because they were not moving). So the sum of their final momentums should be also zero.
2. Their kinetic energies will be equal to each other.
The spring unloads in both direction at equal rates, so I assume that their kinetic energies must also be equal. (I couldn't find a mathematical evidence in my Giancoli book to see if I am actually right)

Are my conclusions right?
 
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kyrillos said:
1. Their momentums will be equal to each other.
Their momentum before the string is cut is equal to zero (because they were not moving). So the sum of their final momentums should be also zero.
Yes, that is correct.

kyrillos said:
2. Their kinetic energies will be equal to each other.
The spring unloads in both direction at equal rates, so I assume that their kinetic energies must also be equal
This is only correct if the masses are equal. Can you think what will happen if the masses are not equal?
 
Dale said:
Yes, that is correct.

This is only correct if the masses are equal. Can you think what will happen if the masses are not equal?
Well:
0 = m1v1 + m2v2
v1 = -m2v2/m1

And:
0.5m1v12 + 0.5m2v22 = 0.5kx2

I don't know what to do next, since I also don't know the value of the elastic potential energy. Could you help me?
 
kyrillos said:
I don't know what to do next, since I also don't know the value of the elastic potential energy. Could you help me?
You can just leave the elastic potential energy as you have written it. So the next step is just to substitute

kyrillos said:
v1 = -m2v2/m1
into
kyrillos said:
0.5m1v12 + 0.5m2v22 = 0.5kx2
and then solve for the velocity.
 

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