Is the Conservation of Energy a Law or a Fact?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter iantresman
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Facts Laws
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the terminology and conceptual understanding of the conservation of energy, specifically whether it should be classified as a law, a fact, or a principle. Participants explore the implications of these classifications within the context of physics, including historical perspectives and the relationship between energy conservation and various physical theories.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that historical views on radioactivity initially suggested it violated the conservation of energy, but later understanding clarified that it does not.
  • One participant provides definitions from Wikipedia, distinguishing between scientific laws as statements based on repeated observations and scientific facts as objective observations.
  • Another participant expresses that there is no contradiction in referring to the conservation of energy as both a law and a fact, although they prefer to reserve "fact" for specific states of affairs.
  • A participant argues that radioactivity does not violate the conservation of energy, suggesting that previous understandings were incomplete regarding how work can be done.
  • One contribution highlights the equivalence of mass and energy, stating that the conservation law applies in high-energy interactions, while also noting that laws like Ohm's Law have specific ranges of applicability.
  • Another participant discusses the limitations of energy conservation in the context of general relativity, explaining that it does not hold in non-stationary metrics, such as in the expanding universe described by the Friedmann-Lemaitre-Robertson-Walker metric.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the classification of the conservation of energy, with no consensus reached on whether it should be termed a law, a fact, or a principle. The discussion includes multiple competing perspectives on the implications of these terms.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various physical theories, including special relativity and general relativity, to illustrate the complexities surrounding the conservation of energy. There are unresolved questions regarding the definitions and implications of the terms used in the discussion.

iantresman
Messages
67
Reaction score
2
Although scientists once thought that radioactivity violated the law of conservation of energy, then new understanding of nuclear decay helped demonstrate that the law was fact.

So why do we continue to call the Conservation of Energy a law, and not a fact. Why not a principle? Is there a difference?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
From Wiki:

A scientific law is a statement based on repeated experimental observations that describes some aspect of the world. A scientific law always applies under the same conditions, and implies that there is a causal relationship involving its elements.

In the most basic sense, a scientific fact is an objective and verifiable observation, in contrast with a hypothesis or theory, which is intended to explain or interpret facts.

You could say a fact is saying, "Current in this circuit is 10 amps and the voltage is 100 volts". I can observe this by measuring the current and voltage.

In contrast, a law would be saying, "The current through a conductor between two points is directly proportional to the potential difference across the two points". (Which is Ohm's law) There is a relationship between current and voltage that this law describes. The law doesn't describe WHY current is proportional to the potential difference across two points, it only states that it is.
 
I don't think there's a contradiction between calling the law of conservation of energy a law and calling it a fact. I suppose that calling it a fact is a way of saying that we are sure it is true. My personal preference would be not to use the word fact in this way, but to reserve it to describe individual states of affairs in the universe, such as my living in England, or my cat being tabby.
 
But if radioactivity can do work then it doesn't violate the law of conservation of energy at all. All it means is that the avenues through with which work can be done were originally incomplete.

Claude.
 
Once you recognise the equivalence of mass and energy, the conservation law works. But you have to remember that it's only in case of nuclear (very high energy) interactions that the classical law is violated.
Ohm's Law also has a certain range over which it applies and so does Newton's Law of gravitation. No one should loose any sleep over the changing meanings and uses of these names. The big step was taken a long time ago when the word Law ceased to mean a Law, laid down by (a) God and became a description of behaviour of a system. Words are constantly changing their meaning, aren't they? (Wicked!)
 
The energy-conservation law holds within the realm of special relativity (and also of Newtonian mechanics), because it directly follows from the symmetry of physics under time translations (via Noether's theorem).

It does not hold within general relativity, where energy conservation is violated for non-stationary a non-stationary metrics. E.g., in the Cosmological Standard model space-time on the large scale is described as a Friedmann-Lemaitre-Robertson-Walker metric with an expanding scale factor, which leads to the redshift of photons that travel in free space. This means the photon's energy is not conserved due to the expansion of the scale factor in the metric.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
4K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
6K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K