Is the Curl of Induced E Field Always Zero?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Sturk200
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Curl Field Induced
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of the curl of the electric field (E-field) and whether it is always zero. Participants explore the implications of induced electric fields resulting from changing magnetic flux and whether this leads to non-conservative electric fields, particularly in the context of electrostatics versus dynamic situations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the curl of the E-field is zero only in electrostatic conditions, implying that it is a conservative force.
  • Others argue that in dynamic situations, the curl of the E-field is related to the rate of change of the magnetic field, leading to a non-conservative electric field.
  • There is a discussion about the correct formulation of the relationship between the curl of the E-field and the magnetic field, with some participants emphasizing the importance of the negative sign in the equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; there are competing views regarding the conditions under which the curl of the E-field is zero and the implications for conservativeness.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the curl of the E-field being zero applies specifically to static conditions, while dynamic cases introduce complexities that are not fully resolved in the discussion.

Sturk200
Messages
168
Reaction score
17
I have a problem. So the curl of the E field is supposed to be zero always, which tells us that it is a conservative force (path independence and scalar potential and so on). But what about the fact that the induced electric field consequent upon changes in magnetic flux is circular? Doesn't this mean that if we sustained such a field we would have a non-conservative electric field?

Is this a problem, or is it just that the claim about electric fields having zero curl has application only to electrostatics?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Sturk200 said:
I have a problem. So the curl of the E field is supposed to be zero always, which tells us that it is a conservative force (path independence and scalar potential and so on). But what about the fact that the induced electric field consequent upon changes in magnetic flux is circular? Doesn't this mean that if we sustained such a field we would have a non-conservative electric field?

Is this a problem, or is it just that the claim about electric fields having zero curl has application only to electrostatics?

The curl of the E-field is zero only if the E-field is time independent, i.e. electrostatics. In the dynamic case, the curl of the E-field is the negative rate of change of the B-field, which is not zero in general. This makes the dynamic E-field non-conservative, with the path integral around a closed loop equal to the EMF in the circuit which drives the current.
 
Sturk200 said:
the curl of the E field is supposed to be zero always
No, ##\nabla \times E=-\partial B/\partial t##
 
Last edited:
DaleSpam said:
No, ##\nabla \times E=\partial B/\partial t##
Don't forget the negative sign.
 
MarcusAgrippa said:
Don't forget the negative sign.
Oops, fixed it.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 54 ·
2
Replies
54
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
4K