Is the Hamilton-Jacobi Formalism a Classical Analogue to Quantum Wave Functions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between the Hamilton-Jacobi formalism in classical mechanics and quantum wave functions, exploring whether the former serves as a classical analogue to the latter. Participants delve into theoretical aspects, mathematical formulations, and potential connections between classical and quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the Hamilton-Jacobi equation is purely classical and does not relate to quantum theory, emphasizing its role in solving classical equations of motion.
  • Others propose that the Hamilton-Jacobi formalism can be connected to quantum mechanics through methods like the WKB approximation, suggesting that classical action can emerge from quantum formulations.
  • A participant questions how the Hamilton-Jacobi formalism differs from the Hamiltonian formalism and whether it can be expressed in the context of Hilbert space.
  • Some contributions highlight the importance of conserved quantities and canonical transformations in the Hamilton-Jacobi approach, noting that these concepts are integral to understanding the dynamics of Hamiltonian systems.
  • There is a request for examples of classical systems where the Hamilton-Jacobi equation is applied, indicating a desire for practical applications rather than theoretical derivations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the relationship between the Hamilton-Jacobi formalism and quantum mechanics, with some asserting a clear distinction while others explore potential connections. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of Hamilton-Jacobi in quantum contexts.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on specific interpretations of quantum mechanics and the conditions under which the Hamilton-Jacobi formalism is applicable. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps or the definitions involved in the various approaches presented.

  • #61
Demystifier said:
@fanieh you are so fast in making questions. Do you ever try to answer them by yourself?

Ive been thinking of this for months. Schlosshauer only mentioned about the theme about "nothing happens in many worlds" indirectly only in 2 pages.. in page 337 "Everett Branches and the Preferred-Basis Problem". The book doesn't mention at all how the initial environment and system got decomposed in MWI. It didn't mention about the Factorization problem. It is only in PF archives that I can read about it.

Anyway. You sure there is no fatal flaw in the concept that a 5th fundamental force created the position preferred basis in MWI to become BM. Well. I'd lecture this to thousand of students so hope it's not illogical or false.. lol.. thanks..
 
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  • #62
fanieh said:
Oh. I wrote the reply before I saw you asked it.. Again..

Schlosshauer only mentioned about the theme about "nothing happens in many worlds" indirectly only in 2 pages.. in page 337 "Everett Branches and the Preferred-Basis Problem". The book doesn't mention at all how the initial environment and system got decomposed in MWI. It didn't mention about the Factorization problem. It is only in PF archives that I can read about it.

Anyway. You sure there is no fatal flaw in the concept that a 5th fundamental force created the position preferred basis in MWI to become BM. Well. I'd lecture this to thousand of students so hope it's not illogical or false.. lol.. thanks..

The Schlosshauer book didn't mention about the Factorization Problem that's why I was kinda confused about it. Well.. the mere fact our universe has environment and system splitted in the Big Bang means there is already position chosen.. and it doesn't mean there is BM, right? so it appears BM is just alternative way of looking at it or addition to preferred basis chosen in the initial environment-system decomposition isn't it? Schlosshaer nearly talked about this when he mentioned Stapp paper in page 337.. but he stopped short and so readers would not be aware of the problem. That's why I'm confused about this.
 
  • #63
fanieh said:
Ive been thinking of this for months. Schlosshauer only mentioned about the theme about "nothing happens in many worlds" indirectly only in 2 pages.. in page 337 "Everett Branches and the Preferred-Basis Problem". The book doesn't mention at all how the initial environment and system got decomposed in MWI. It didn't mention about the Factorization problem. It is only in PF archives that I can read about it.
You can read https://arxiv.org/abs/1703.08341 Sec. 3.3 Refs. [22,23,24].
 
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