Is the index of refraction constant for a given medium?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of the index of refraction in different media, specifically whether it remains constant for a given medium or varies with the frequency of incident light. Participants explore concepts related to light speed, wavelength, frequency, and energy of photons in various media, including glass and water.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the index of refraction varies with the frequency of light, citing the phenomenon of dispersion.
  • One participant asserts that since the speed of light in a medium is less than in a vacuum, the frequency must change if the wavelength remains constant.
  • Another participant corrects their earlier statement, suggesting that the frequency remains constant while the wavelength must change to accommodate the lower velocity in a medium.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between energy, frequency, and wavelength, with references to the equations E=hf and E=hv/λ.
  • One participant argues that once a wave is launched, its frequency cannot change in an inertial frame, and any change in velocity will result in a change in wavelength.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between frequency, wavelength, and velocity in a medium. There is no consensus on whether the index of refraction is constant or varies with frequency, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various physical principles and equations, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the behavior of light in different media and the implications of changing velocity on frequency and wavelength.

Phys12
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If we have a medium (say, glass) with an index of refraction, n=1.33, the speed of light in it will be c/1.33. However, blue light travels slower in glass than does red light. Since c is constant and the speed of light is changing, doesn't that mean that the index of refraction will vary based on the frequency of the incident light?
 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prism said:
The refractive index of many materials (such as glass) varies with the wavelength or color of the light used, a phenomenon known as dispersion.
 
Okay. Also, since the wavelength of light remains constant when it passes through a medium, the frequency has to decrease in order to have a lower velocity, correct?
 
Phys12 said:
Also, since the wavelength of light remains constant when it passes through a medium

Why do you think that?
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Why do you think that?
Actually, I got it the other way around. My statement should've read: "since the frequency of light remains constant when it passes through a medium, the wavelength has to decrease in order to have a lower velocity, correct?"

But when I think about it again, frequency is the number of times a certain wave of a given wavelength passes through a point and if we're changing the velocity of the wave, that should change the frequency and not the wavelength.

Edit: on another thought, the energy of the photon stays the same in vacuum and in water so we need to keep E=hf (where f is the frequency) constant. E is also equal to hv/lambda (v is the speed of light, lambda is the wavelength), but if we want to keep the frequency constant and we're changing v, we must change lambda too.
 
Last edited:
Phys12 said:
Actually, I got it the other way around. My statement should've read: "since the frequency of light remains constant when it passes through a medium, the wavelength has to decrease in order to have a lower velocity, correct?"
Write down the relationship between frequency, wavelength, and velocity and you will have the answer.

But when I think about it again, frequency is the number of times a certain wave of a given wavelength passes through a point and if we're changing the velocity of the wave, that should change the frequency and not the wavelength.
See above and figure out which two of the three quantities have to be constant across a change in medium.

Edit: on another thought, the energy of the photon stays the same in vacuum and in water so we need to keep E=hf (where f is the frequency) constant. E is also equal to hv/lambda (v is the speed of light, lambda is the wavelength), but if we want to keep the frequency constant and we're changing v, we must change lambda too.
So what's your answer? :wink:
 
olivermsun said:
So what's your answer? :wink:
I'm going to say this one: The energy of the photon stays the same in vacuum and in water so we need to keep E=hf (where f is the frequency) constant. E is also equal to hv/lambda (v is the speed of light, lambda is the wavelength), but if we want to keep the frequency constant and we're changing v, we must change lambda too.

Because we can change the wavelength and still keep the frequency constant by changing the velocity.
 
Phys12 said:
Because we can change the wavelength and still keep the frequency constant by changing the velocity.
Whilst the Maths of that statement is correct - you can re-arrange an equation to put any variable on the left - the Physics of it are the wrong way round. Once a wave has been launched, you cannot change its frequency (in an inertial frame). All you can do it change the velocity by choosing the right medium and that will result in a wavelength change.
The description of how an EM wave moves through a substance is very non-trivial in terms of photons so best not to try until the rest of the basics have been totally sorted out, along with the Quantum mechanics that are involved.
 

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