Is the inertial mass of light relative?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of the inertial mass of light and its relationship to gravitational mass, particularly in the context of general relativity (GR). Participants explore how light behaves in gravitational fields, the implications of the equivalence principle, and whether different wavelengths of light are affected differently by massive objects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that, according to the equivalence principle, the gravitational mass of light is equivalent to its inertial mass due to its momentum.
  • There is a question about whether higher energy light (e.g., gamma rays) is more affected by massive objects than lower energy light (e.g., radio waves).
  • Participants discuss the concept that light has no absolute frequency, leading to inquiries about how the bending of light by massive objects might depend on the observer's frame of reference.
  • One participant notes that in general relativity, the source of gravity is the stress-energy tensor, which complicates the notion of gravitational mass for light.
  • It is mentioned that light follows null geodesics in all frames, and its gravitational influence is determined by the Einstein field equations.
  • A later reply questions whether empirical observations show that light waves of different wavelengths or intensities respond differently to the same massive object, leading to a claim that they do not, as all free-falling objects follow the same path regardless of momentum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between light's energy, its gravitational mass, and how it interacts with massive objects. While there is some agreement on the behavior of light in gravitational fields, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of how different wavelengths might respond to gravity.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the stress-energy tensor for light does not simplify to a single scalar value, which introduces complexity in discussing gravitational mass. There are also unresolved questions about the empirical observations of light's behavior in gravitational fields.

GW Leibniz
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By the equivalence principle, the gravitational mass of light is its inertial mass, which it has because it has momentum. Light can impart some of its the momentum to massive objects, upon which it will lose energy, which is manifested by its frequency (the basic principle behind doppler velocimetry, as I understand it).

a) Does this mean that higher energy light (e.g., gamma waves) are going to be more affected by a nearby massive object than lower energy light (e.g., radio waves)?

If yes, then...

b) As I understand it, light has no absolute frequency -- if an observer is moving toward the oncoming light, she will measure a higher frequency, and likewise if an observer is moving in the opposite direction, she will measure a lower frequency. So, then, does it follow that the degree to which the path of light is bent by a massive object depends on the frame of reference in which that deflection is observed? It seems unlikely to me but I don't know why.

If the answer to a is no, is the answer also no for wave-particles that do have a rest mass, like say an electron? (if gravity would be irrelevant because it would be overwhelmed by some other force for some reason, bracket that off for the purpose of this question)

Also, if the answer to a is no, and if the reason is that the only thing that matters is the speed, and the speed is constant, then why doesn't the light's energy factor into its gravitational mass?

I hope this isn't too incoherent...
 
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GW Leibniz said:
By the equivalence principle, the gravitational mass of light is its inertial mass
In GR there isn't a such thing as gravitational mass in general. The source of gravity in GR is the stress-energy tensor, which is a rank 2 symmetric tensor (i.e. it has 10 independent compnents). You cannot distill that down into a single scalar number in general.

The reason this is important and makes answering the rest of your question difficult is that light, in particular, has a stress-energy tensor of a form where there does not exist any reference frame where all of the terms but one vanish. So there is no such thing as the gravitational mass of a plane wave of light.

What you can say is that light gravitationally follows null geodesics in all frames and that the gravitational influence of light is determined by the Einstein field equations in all frames.
 
DaleSpam said:
In GR there isn't a such thing as gravitational mass in general. The source of gravity in GR is the stress-energy tensor, which is a rank 2 symmetric tensor (i.e. it has 10 independent compnents). You cannot distill that down into a single scalar number in general.

The reason this is important and makes answering the rest of your question difficult is that light, in particular, has a stress-energy tensor of a form where there does not exist any reference frame where all of the terms but one vanish. So there is no such thing as the gravitational mass of a plane wave of light.

What you can say is that light gravitationally follows null geodesics in all frames and that the gravitational influence of light is determined by the Einstein field equations in all frames.

Ok, fair enough. But empirically, do we observe that waves of light with different wavelengths or intensity respond differently to the same massive object?
 
GW Leibniz said:
Ok, fair enough. But empirically, do we observe that waves of light with different wavelengths or intensity respond differently to the same massive object?
No. Light is no different than other free falling objects here. Starting at the same position and velocity two objects follow the same path, even if their momentum is different.
 

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