Relativistic Physics: Gravitational & Inertial Mass

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of gravitational and inertial mass within the framework of relativity, particularly focusing on whether gravitational mass can be represented as γm and how this relates to inertial mass. Participants explore the implications of these ideas in both special and general relativity, questioning the validity of various claims and equations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that in Newtonian mechanics, gravitational and inertial mass are equivalent, but question whether this holds true in relativity, suggesting that gravitational mass might be represented as γm.
  • Others challenge the claim that gravitational mass is γm, stating that it is not a valid concept in relativity and that the stress-energy tensor serves as the source of gravitation.
  • There are references to the equation F=γ³ma, with some participants questioning its validity and applicability in the context of relativity.
  • Some participants emphasize that gravity is not a force in the relativistic sense, which complicates the relationship between mass and gravitational effects.
  • There is mention of different types of mass, such as longitudinal and transverse mass, and a suggestion that it is more appropriate to consider only one kind of mass in relativity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express significant disagreement regarding the concept of gravitational mass in relativity, with some arguing for its existence as γm and others denying its validity entirely. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that the definitions and roles of gravitational and inertial mass may depend on the context of relativity, and there are unresolved questions about the applicability of certain equations and concepts.

Lee Sung Bin
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In Newtonian mechanics, both gravitational mass and inertial mass is m. This principle is known as the principle of equivalence. However, I heard that in Relativity, gravitational mass is γm instead of m because total energy of the particle is γmc2. But in special relativity, it is widely known that F=γ3ma while a is acceleration. Does that means inertial mass and gravitational mass is different in general and only approximately same at non-relativistic situation? Or is inertial mass also γm? Or is the answer totally different?
 
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Lee Sung Bin said:
However, I heard that in Relativity, gravitational mass is γm instead of m because total energy of the particle is γmc2.
"I heard that" is not a valid reference. Where did you hear that? How are we supposed to examine a reference that we have not been given? Either way, what you "heard" is not correct.

Lee Sung Bin said:
But in special relativity, it is widely known that F=γ3ma while a is acceleration.
Again, where did you get this information? It is not generally correct so any inference you take from it is not going to be correct.

See also https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/what-is-relativistic-mass-and-why-it-is-not-used-much/
 
Lee Sung Bin said:
However, I heard that in Relativity, gravitational mass is γm
Where did you hear this? There is no such thing as "gravitational mass" in relativity, except in the sense that one can derive approximations like Newtonian gravity.

The source term in relativity is the stress-energy tensor, which does not include a ##\gamma m## term. Test objects follow geodesics determined by the geometry of spacetime; their own mass does not enter into it. In other words, gravity is not a force, so relativistic force equations aren't relevant.
 
Lee Sung Bin said:
I heard that in Relativity, gravitational mass is γm
No, most definitely not. Whatever source you heard this from is wrong and you should discard it entirely or treat everything it says with extreme skepticism.
 
Orodruin said:
what you "heard" is not correct.
Dale said:
No, most definitely not. Whatever source you heard this from is wrong and you should discard it entirely or treat everything it says with extreme skepticism.
If gravitational mass is not γm, then what is? Or is there no gravitational mass in relativity?
 
Lee Sung Bin said:
If gravitational mass is not γm, then what is? Or is there no gravitational mass in relativity?
The source of gravitation in General Relativity is the Stress-Energy Tensor.
 
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Lee Sung Bin said:
r is there no gravitational mass in relativity?

Look up:

Ibix said:
There is no such thing as "gravitational mass" in relativity
 
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Lee Sung Bin said:
If gravitational mass is not γm, then what is? Or is there no gravitational mass in relativity?
There is no active gravitational mass, the source of gravity in GR is the stress energy tensor. Sometimes people also talk about passive gravitational mass, but the concept doesn’t work in GR since gravity is not a force.
 
Lee Sung Bin said:
... But in special relativity, it is widely known that F=γ3ma while a is acceleration.

FYI, that equation only holds if the force vector is parallel (or antiparallel) with the object's velocity vector.
 
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Lee Sung Bin said:
But in special relativity, it is widely known that F=γ3ma while a is acceleration.

Just to add a bit to what @SiennaTheGr8 said, ##\gamma^3 m## was called the longitudinal mass. Likewise, and for the same reason, ##\gamma m## was called the transverse mass. It really is better to abandon any hope of finding a proportionality constant between ##\vec{F}## and ##\vec{a}##, especially because those two vectors don't generally have the same direction!

It is much better to speak of only one kind of mass ##m##, and realize that the departures from ##\vec{F}=m \vec{a}## are not due to some error in the way ##m## is defined, but instead are due to the geometry of spacetime.
 
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