Is the Lorentz force conservative?

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The discussion revolves around the nature of the Lorentz force and whether it can be considered conservative. Participants are examining the implications of electric and magnetic fields, particularly in time-dependent scenarios, and how these relate to the concept of conservative forces.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Exploratory

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are exploring the relationship between the Lorentz force components, questioning the role of electric fields, and considering the implications of time dependence on conservativeness. There is a focus on whether the magnetic force can be treated similarly to conservative forces derived from potentials.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the non-conservative nature of the Lorentz force under certain conditions, particularly when fields are time-dependent. Others are seeking clarification on specific components of the force and the implications of magnetic forces not being expressible in terms of potential energy like other conservative forces.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of confusion arising from quantum mechanics literature regarding the treatment of magnetic forces, indicating a need for further exploration of definitions and assumptions in the context of conservative forces.

Kolahal Bhattacharya
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Lorentz force is F=q(E+v cross .............(1)
We seem to be interested only in B[=A(q/r^2)(v' cross ].What about E?Is it an electrostatic field?I suppose not.If not,then should be time dependent and del cross E=-(d/dt)B
Taking line integral of (1),W=integral(a to F.dr
=integral(a to E.dr + 0
Does this mean F(mag) is conservative?
if a and b are the same,Will W=0?
in that case will Lorentz force be conservative?
however, i saw in Griffiths's Quantum Mechanics that magnetic forces cannot be expressed like (-dV/dx) like other conservative forces.
what is the physics?
 
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please don't mind the b's are missing.
 
The Lorentz force

[tex]\vec{F}=q\vec{E}+q\vec{v}\times\vec{B}[/tex] (1)

generalizes the magnetostatics and the electrostatics forces, with the latter being the Coulomb force. If the fields depend on time, which means the electrostatic and magnetostatic regimes are not valid anymore, then (1) is not conservative. It doesn't derive from any potential. But in the electrostatics, it's well known that the Coulomb force is conservative, since it derives from the Coulomb potential.

So the main idea is "time-dependence of fields".

Daniel.
 
Thank you,daniel.I got your point.
But still unclear is that q(v cross B) part.Anyway F(mag)=q(v cross B) is zero even if the field is time dependent.So,can it be conservative?Actually,I am not sure that curl of B(t)=0 in that case.
what about the QM book confusion?Why magnetic forces cannot be expressed as F=-dV/dx like other conservative forces.
 

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