Is the Speed of Light Changing? Implications for Permittivity and Permeability.

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of a potentially changing speed of light on the permittivity and permeability of vacuum. Participants explore whether these quantities are constants that can be derived or if they are solely based on experimental measurements. The conversation touches on theoretical considerations, experimental data, and the relationship between these physical constants.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the permittivity and permeability would change if the speed of light is changing, suggesting these quantities may not be true constants.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of the fine structure constant, with some arguing it is a dimensionless number that characterizes physics rather than units, and noting it is currently only experimentally measured.
  • A participant references a study suggesting that the speed of light may have changed based on re-analysis of historical data, indicating a small increase in the speed of light but ruling out the possibility of no change.
  • Some participants clarify that the speed of light, vacuum permittivity, and vacuum permeability are defined by the system of units used, with natural units equating them to 1 and CGS not including vacuum permeability and permittivity.
  • One participant states that the speed of light changes when transitioning from vacuum to media, linking it to the properties of permittivity and permeability in those media.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the speed of light is changing and its implications for permittivity and permeability. There is no consensus on the derivability of these constants or the interpretation of the fine structure constant.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on specific definitions and systems of units, and the discussion includes unresolved questions about the implications of experimental findings on theoretical models.

iScience
Messages
466
Reaction score
5
If the speed of light is changing, does this mean that the permattivity and/or permeability are dynamically changing quantities? are these "constants" derivable yet or are they still only experimentally measured quantities?
 
Science news on Phys.org
iScience said:
If the speed of light is changing, does this mean that the permattivity and/or permeability are dynamically changing quantities? are these "constants" derivable yet or are they still only experimentally measured quantities?

What makes you think the speed of light (in vacuum) is changing?
 
iScience said:
If the speed of light is changing, does this mean that the permattivity and/or permeability are dynamically changing quantities? are these "constants" derivable yet or are they still only experimentally measured quantities?
The speed of light, vacuum permettivity and vacuum permeability are all determined by the system of units. In natural units they are all equal to 1, and in CGS the vacuum permeability and permittivity do not even exist.

What you should really be asking is if the fine structure constant is derivable or only experimentally measured. That is a dimensionless number and so is independent of the system of units. It characterizes the physics rather than the units.

The answer is that the fine structure constant is experimentally measured, not yet derivable.
 
Has there been a follow up to..

http://www.newscientist.com/article...t-may-have-changed-recently.html#.U6_HJ2cU91M

Now, Lamoreaux, along with LANL colleague Justin Torgerson, has re-analysed the Oklo data using what he says are more realistic figures for the energy spectrum of the neutrons present in the reactor. The results have surprised him. Alpha, it seems, has decreased by more than 4.5 parts in 108 since Oklo was live (Physical Review D, vol 69, p121701).

That translates into a very small increase in the speed of light (assuming no change in the other constants that alpha depends on), but Lamoreaux's new analysis is so precise that he can rule out the possibility of zero change in the speed of light. "It's pretty exciting," he says.
 
What makes you think the speed of light (in vacuum) is changing?

I just assumed he was referring to vacuum

The speed of light, vacuum permettivity and vacuum permeability are all determined by the system of units. In natural units they are all equal to 1, and in CGS the vacuum permeability and permittivity do not even exist.

what's CGS?
 
the speed of light will be changed when the light goes from the vacuum into the media due to the change of the permability and permittivity. the speed of the light is related to these material properties by checking the wave equations in the medias.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
6K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
17K