Is there a way to eliminate the second derivative in calculus using integration?

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    Calculus Operator
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the possibility of eliminating the second derivative in calculus through integration, exploring various mathematical manipulations and interpretations of differential operators. Participants examine the validity of specific transformations and the properties of differential operators in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that integrating the equation D²f(x) = g(x) can eliminate the second derivative, proposing a series of transformations leading to f(x) expressed in terms of g(x).
  • Another participant challenges the validity of a transformation involving the square root of the second derivative, providing a counterexample with a specific function to illustrate that the proposed equality does not hold.
  • A different participant points out that the notation used for integration, specifically ##dx^2##, is incorrect and misrepresents the integration variable.
  • Another contribution discusses the application of arithmetic operators to differential operators, questioning whether the square root operator can be applied in the proposed manner without proof.
  • A participant mentions the lack of demonstrations for certain relations involving geometric derivatives, asserting the validity of their approach without providing formal proof.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the proposed manipulations and transformations involving differential operators. There is no consensus on the correctness of the methods discussed, and multiple competing interpretations remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of differential operator properties, incorrect notation in integration, and the absence of formal proofs for certain claims made regarding the manipulation of derivatives.

Jhenrique
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Given that D²f(x) = g(x), one form that eliminate the second derivate is integrating the equation: ∫∫D²f(x)dx² = ∫∫g(x)dx². But, and if I try so:

[tex]\\ \sqrt{D^2f(x)}=\sqrt{g(x)} \\ D\sqrt{f(x)}=\sqrt{g(x)} \\ PD\sqrt{f(x)}=P\sqrt{g(x)} \\ \sqrt{f(x)}=P\sqrt{g(x)} \\ f(x)=[P\sqrt{g(x)}]^2 \\ f(x)=[\int \sqrt{g(x)}dx]^2[/tex]

Is it works?
 
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Going from the first to the second line you are claiming
[tex]\sqrt{ f''(x)} = \frac{d}{dx} \sqrt{f(x)}[/tex]

If we pick a random function, say f(x) = x4, the left hand side of this is
[tex]\sqrt{12 x^2} = \sqrt{12} |x|[/tex]
and the right hand side is
[tex]\frac{d}{dx} x^2 = 2x[/tex]

so we see they're not equal at all. The D operator is nice for seeing how you are using the linearity of the derivative but don't confuse it for an honest to goodness number that can be manipulated the same in every way.
 
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Jhenrique said:
∫∫D²f(x)dx² = ∫∫g(x)dx².

You can't write ##dx^2## like that. It means integrate with respect to ##x^2## instead of integrating with respect to ##x##.
 
Every definition of the "differential operators" will include showing which ordinary arithmetic operators work for differential operators as well. Of course you can only use arithmetic operators that have the property that they can be applied to differential operators. Have you seen any proof that the "square root" operator has that property?
 
Not always there is demonstrations for certain relations. I never saw a demo for this but I know it's valid.

[tex]\\ f^D=f^D \\ log(f^D)=log(f^D) \\ log(f^D)=Dlog(f) \\ f^D=exp(\frac{f'}{f})[/tex]
PS: f^D = f*(x) = geometric derivate
 

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