Is there any way to do a Master's in Physics without Physics in undergrad?

[DevonicZZ]

I am doing my BS in Data Science, I always liked physics but couldn't get in BSc Physics course. I want to know If I can continue my studies in Physics or some data science physics hybrid course(?) without formal education in Physics?
I tried to solve GRE Physics test myself and scored around 70% but I have 1 more year before finishing Bachelors..
I really love Physics and Math and I am pretty sure I could learn Physics on my own. But i can't find a single college which accepts people for MSc from other majors. (I do not have any Physics course in undergradute)

 

[PeroK]

I really love Physics and Math and I am pretty sure I could learn Physics on my own. But i can't find a single college which accepts people for MSc from other majors. (I do not have any Physics course in undergradute)

Is that a surprise?

 

[Choppy]

Even if you could find a way in, I'm not sure that you'd really want to get into a Master's program without any formal undergraduate education in physics. For the record, there are graduate programs that will accept people who haven't specifically done an undergraduate program in physics. BUT the people they admit will generally have completed an undergraduate program with a strong physics component. Typically this includes degrees such as physical chemistry, engineering physics, astronomy, electrical engineering, etc.

A data science background without having taken ANY physics courses as an undergrad is highly unlikely to be considered in this category.

Remember that admission to graduate school is competitive. There are usually more students than positions and the lineup of students contains people who have all done undergraduate degrees in physics (or equivalent). So you'd have to convince a committee of people that you deserve a position to the exclusion of all those others.

And then let's say you actually get in.

How do you know that you'll enjoy actually doing physics at an advanced level if you've never done it formally before? It's one thing to ponder the problems that interest you on your own. It's another to be assigned a mountain of problem sets that are specifically designed to challenge you. It's not uncommon for graduate students to get overwhelmed by the workload - when they have adequate preparation. I fear that without that, you'd be setting yourself up for failure.

That said, if this is something you really want to do, why not switch your major? Or double major? Talk to your academic advisor and figure out a plan to leverage the coursework you already haven and complete a degree that will qualify you for admission to a physics graduate program. This may take another year or two to complete, but in the grand scheme of things, if it get you to where you really want to be, it's probably worth the investment.

And if your current school doesn't offer such a route, maybe you should look to find one that does.

 

[DevonicZZ]

Maybe I can do another bachelors after finishing my degree? As I said, I am currently in 2nd year of bachelors (only like 7 months are left before finals) So I could probably go for another Bachelors in Physics OR maybe open college? (online degree or smth with offline exams?)

 

[Choppy]

Maybe I can do another bachelors after finishing my degree? As I said, I am currently in 2nd year of bachelors (only like 7 months are left before finals) So I could probably go for another Bachelors in Physics OR maybe open college? (online degree or smth with offline exams?)

That sounds like a good basis for a talk with an academic advisor. If you're only in your second year now, that's probably not too late to switch majors. At very least, you can start by taking an introductory physics course or two. That will get them out of the way and it's a good way to find out whether you really want to embark on this path or not before going all in.

 

[StatGuy2000]

To the OP:

I think it would be helpful to the rest of PF to tell us where you are located. I ask this because different post-secondary education in different countries can differ quite significantly in terms of earning second degrees, transferring different programs, etc.

 

[Zap]

You can get into a master's program for physics, but you'll most likely have to email and talk to some people who are involved in the program of your choice. You may have to take some remedial classes, Maybe not. You should do some investigating.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Some grad programs welcome students from other disciplines, but it is very rare in physics. There aren't many other ways to gain the competence needed for a grad program in physics without all the physics courses typically required in most BS Physics programs.

Other fields are different. Chemistry majors (BS) are in strong demand in many life science grad programs. One chemistry major I've mentored is completing a Masters in Public Health now and widely considered an attractive candidate for PhD programs in epidemiology. But this is something I researched strongly before advising students to major in chemistry if they are interested in graduate school in the life sciences.

Your academic advisers let you down if they allowed you to think that there is any good path to grad school in physics other than a BS in physics. As mentioned above, there are a few possible paths, but none as good as a BS in physics, and a BS in Data Science is not even a possible path without tons of additional math and physics coursework.

 

[jtbell]

To the OP:

I think it would be helpful to the rest of PF to tell us where you are located. I ask this because different post-secondary education in different countries can differ quite significantly in terms of earning second degrees, transferring different programs, etc.

++++++1

I was about to suggest this, but I see you've done it already.

Im currently in 2nd year of bachelors

In the US, it's common for 2nd year (sophomore) bachelors degree students to switch to a different major field. They might need to add another year to their studies. From what I've read here, it's not so common or even possible in some other countries.

I understand that for privacy reasons, you may not want to tell us where you are. Nevertheless, if you did that, you might get help from people who are acquainted with your country's educational system.

 

[Zap]

All you'd have to do is get a reasonable score on the Physics GRE. If you're able to do that, I don't see why you couldn't get into a graduate program in Physics. If you are already a senior, than I would just try to see if you can go ahead and take the GRE and start applying to Physics programs. However, obviously, the best path to a Physics graduate program is a Physics undergraduate program. I later found out I could have applied to an MS program in electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, chemical engineering and possibly even computer science, having a BS in physics and chemistry. Whether or not I would be required to take remedial courses was actually subject to some debate. This info was gathered from speaking to several professors around my college and at other colleges.

 

[bhobba]

Well yes - but courses that allow it are, to the best of my knowledge anyway, not common in the USA, but more common overseas eg:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/msc-mathematical-and-theoretical-physics

If I remember correctly that is how Dirac dit it. He had a degree in electrical engineering, and Cambridge have a scheme where if you already have a degree in a related area you can be admitted to second year of their math degree (called gaining admission as an affiliate student). Your year 3 (year 4 for a normal student) as an affiliate student is the masters I gave the link to.

I am in Australia, have a degree in math, and thought about getting qualified in physics at the masters level and investigated how to do it. One way is a diploma in physics:
https://my.uq.edu.au/programs-courses/program.html?acad_prog=2476&year=2021

Doing well in that will admit you to a Masters.

The other way is sticking with math, but doing your masters in an area of applied math that is actually theoretical physics. I actually started such a Masters in Quantum Physics even though I had not done any undergrad physics courses. Their experience was with a good background in applied math your math knowledge allows students to pick up the physics as they go. For example I could enroll in 2nd year QM courses because I already had done a lot of the math (hilbert spaces etc) without doing the first year basic course.

Thanks
Bill

 

[phase_space_kid]

I had an advisor at one point who had a bachelor's degree in religious studies (at Harvard) who wound up doing a PhD in physics without a physics background. He had gone to LA to pursue a career in film, realized that was a bad idea, and then just started taking physics classes at UCLA.

This was back in the 80's I think when HR departments were less authoritarian. He's a professor now.

So, you now have one example of this being possible. However, the guy was ridiculously smart, his advisor for his PhD was Michael Fisher. I would not view his track as reproducible. While I worked for him, I did also find his knowledge was lopsided; it seemed he had never filled in the gaps particularly left by a lack of a few semesters in mathematical physics. Or at least his intuition was usually spectacular but would fail oddly in parts.

Give it a shot if you're really, wildly motivated.

 

[Boltzman Oscillation]

I have just graduated with a bachelor's in electrical engineering. I took one introductory course to quantum mechanics for undergrads, one course for introduction to modern physics, and an undergraduate math for physics course. Does anyone know any university in Texas that is lenient in their requirements to enter their physics graduate program? Or perhaps let me take a few senior undergrad courses before being admitted to the graduate program? The university that I'm in right now has not been very helpful, I've asked three advisors for help already but nobody seems to know or care.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Or perhaps let me take a few senior undergrad courses before being admitted to the graduate program?

You are around 7 courses behind what graduate programs expect, so it may be more than a "few". It is highly unlikely your application will be competitive, and unless there are substantial mitigating circumstances that you have not mentioned, it is unlikely that the university will pay for what is essentially your entire in-major education.

Your best bet is to take those missing courses, get A's in them, ace the GRE and then apply.

 

[Boltzman Oscillation]

You are around 7 courses behind what graduate programs expect, so it may be more than a "few". It is highly unlikely your application will be competitive, and unless there are substantial mitigating circumstances that you have not mentioned, it is unlikely that the university will pay for what is essentially your entire in-major education.

Your best bet is to take those missing courses, get A's in them, ace the GRE and then apply.

Well I'm not against doing some of the classes they see necessary but I wouldn't want to get a second bachelor's entirely.

 

[Vanadium 50]

So how do you plan on being prepared for graduate-level work if you take only "some of the classes they see necessary"?

And if you don't want to take all of the classes they see necessary, why do you want to go to grad school at all? What is your goal?

 

[Boltzman Oscillation]

So how do you plan on being prepared for graduate-level work if you take only "some of the classes they see necessary"?

And if you don't want to take all of the classes they see necessary, why do you want to go to grad school at all? What is your goal?

Why go to grad school? I like learning physics and math. No other reason. My life loses meaning if I stop learning it. I also want to get to the good stuff! I don't find classical mechanics entertaining at all! That's why I chose electrical engineering and not mechanical.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Life losing its meaning if you are not in school sounds distinctly unhealthy to me.

School as a goal itself and not a path towards a goal also does not sound like a sustainable plan.

But in any event, going to grad school if you are unprepared for it is a recipe for disaster. Almost half of those who are prepared don't end up completing their PhDs for one reason or another. Being unprepared just makes things worse.

 

[Choppy]

I have just graduated with a bachelor's in electrical engineering. I took one introductory course to quantum mechanics for undergrads, one course for introduction to modern physics, and an undergraduate math for physics course. Does anyone know any university in Texas that is lenient in their requirements to enter their physics graduate program? Or perhaps let me take a few senior undergrad courses before being admitted to the graduate program? The university that I'm in right now has not been very helpful, I've asked three advisors for help already but nobody seems to know or care.

For what it's worth, something else to consider is the specific direction you want to take in graduate school. There is a lot of engineering research connected to electrical engineering that overlaps with physics (eg. plasma physics, photonics, solid state electronics, electromagnetics and microwaves, etc.) It might be worth thinking in terms of what specifically you want to pursue in graduate school and plotting out a course from there. I suppose a lot depends on what you consider to be the "good stuff."

 

[Boltzman Oscillation]

For what it's worth, something else to consider is the specific direction you want to take in graduate school. There is a lot of engineering research connected to electrical engineering that overlaps with physics (eg. plasma physics, photonics, solid state electronics, electromagnetics and microwaves, etc.) It might be worth thinking in terms of what specifically you want to pursue in graduate school and plotting out a course from there. I suppose a lot depends on what you consider to be the "good stuff."

I really started enjoying telecommunications theory. The probability in telecom really complemented the probability I had in quantum mechanics. I also appreciated Information theory. Idk, maybe I should go to grad school for telecommunications. Sigh i don't know. I can't find a job and I feel useless. I don't want to make any hard decisions at this moment when I am vulnerable. I also need a 3.5 GPA to enter graduate school in engineering but the thing is that I performed so well on my senior design project that the professor urged me to go to grad school and said the GPA would not hurt me too much. But, what happens if I take a year off? I don't think the professor would want to give me a recommendation then.

 

[Boltzman Oscillation]

Life losing its meaning if you are not in school sounds distinctly unhealthy to me.

School as a goal itself and not a path towards a goal also does not sound like a sustainable plan.

But in any event, going to grad school if you are unprepared for it is a recipe for disaster. Almost half of those who are prepared don't end up completing their PhDs for one reason or another. Being unprepared just makes things worse.

I learned that going into college. I failed my second semester, all the classes. I got sent to community college and it took me around two years to work harder and that my happiness came from learning new things and a sense of accomplishment. Oh and good friends.

 

[mancave]

Why go to grad school? I like learning physics and math. No other reason. My life loses meaning if I stop learning it. I also want to get to the good stuff!

Me too! I thought I was the only one who feels this way. My life really went downhill after I stopped doing physics.
I decided to major in finance instead of physics (due to the fact that I can't earn anything in my country with a physics degree). But I feel so empty and hopeless now, so after I complete my bachelors in finance I intend to do a second bachelors in physics and then masters. I'm tired of making wrong choices in my life, I hope I'm doing the right thing this time.