Is there evidence to support the existence of gravity waves?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the existence of gravitational waves and whether gravity can be considered a wave similar to electromagnetic waves. Participants explore the theoretical implications, evidence of gravitational radiation, and the speed at which gravitational waves may travel compared to electromagnetic waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether gravity itself can be classified as a wave, suggesting that gravitational waves are a separate phenomenon akin to electromagnetic waves.
  • Evidence of gravitational radiation is discussed, particularly in relation to pulsar systems where orbital decay aligns with predictions of energy loss as gravitational waves.
  • There are low-confidence measurements regarding the speed of gravitational waves, with a general assertion that they cannot exceed the speed of light (c), but the exact speed remains uncertain.
  • Mathematical foundations are mentioned, indicating that the speed of c is derived from the structure of Einstein's equations, similar to Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism.
  • One participant proposes that if gravity is quantized, it could exhibit behaviors similar to quasi-particles, though the reality of gravitons is debated.
  • While gravity behaves as predicted in experiments like Gravity Probe B, direct measurements of gravitational wave propagation speed have not been achieved, leading to discussions about the implications of this for our understanding of gravity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether gravity can be classified as a wave, and there is no consensus on the speed of gravitational waves compared to electromagnetic waves. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the classification and measurement of gravitational waves.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of direct measurements of gravitational wave speed and the dependence on theoretical frameworks that may not capture all aspects of gravitational behavior.

jobyts
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Do we have evidence to support gravity is a wave (like the interference pattern for em wave)?

Do we have evidence to support the gravity waves travel at the same speed of em waves?
 
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jobyts said:
Do we have evidence to support gravity is a wave (like the interference pattern for em wave)?

Gravity isn't thought to be a wave. Gravitational waves are to gravity as electromagnetic waves are to electromagnetism. A mass just gravitates, you need an accelerating mass to get radiation.

There is evidence of gravitational radiation. In particular, some pulsar systems have large massive objects in close orbits, and we can accurately measure the orbital decay, and find it to be consistent with radiation of orbital energy as gravitational waves.


jobyts said:
Do we have evidence to support the gravity waves travel at the same speed of em waves?

Some low-confidence measurements. We're more confident that gravitational radiation travels no faster than c, for the same reasons nothing else can go faster than c, and there's no reason to expect it to go slower.

Don't get impatient with the lack of detections. Gravitational radiation is expected to be hard to detect, and we're still inching toward instruments with the sensitivity we expect to be necessary.
 
Mathematically the speed c follows from the structure of Einstein equations (just as for the Maxwell equations).
 
jobyts said:
Do we have evidence to support gravity is a wave (like the interference pattern for em wave)?

If you quantize a continuous field, "particles" pop out of the math. There are quasi-particles such as electron density surface waves. So gravity would behave this way on a very small scale, even if gravitons are not "real" in the same sense as electrons. They would still be "real" in the same sense as phonons!

Do we have evidence to support the gravity waves travel at the same speed of em waves?
Yes and no. Gravity behaves exactly as predicted to very high precision (see Gravity Probe B, for example). If the speed of propagation of the disturbance was wrong, the details of frame-dragging and the gravito-magnetic effect would not pan out the same. Direct measurement of a gravitational wave (distortion of space-time) has never been made. The difficult part is is that the laws of GR conspire so that the direction of force is to where the object is now, not where you see it due to propagation delay. So navigating a spacecraft around Jupiter or Saturn to bounce around from moon to moon, with awesome precision, means that the understanding of gravity is pretty keen; however, the experience does not give a direct speed measurement of gravity (it seems to be instantaneous), but, the fact that it does seem that way means that the rules causing it are understood to high precision? Got it?
 

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