Is There Research on Spacetime Elasticity and Its Relationship with Mass?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of spacetime elasticity and its relationship with mass, exploring whether there is research on how mass affects the curvature or "warping" of spacetime. The scope includes theoretical considerations, conceptual clarifications, and references to existing theories in general relativity and quantum gravity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that spacetime may exhibit elasticity, suggesting that a certain amount of mass is required to create a noticeable effect on spacetime, akin to a fabric that resists deformation.
  • Others reference Einstein and Lorentz's contributions to the understanding of spacetime and gravity, noting that gravitational curvature can lead to tidal effects.
  • A participant likens the effect of mass on spacetime to placing objects of varying weights on a bed sheet, indicating that only objects above a certain mass threshold may influence spacetime.
  • There is mention of Sakharov's proposal that gravity can be viewed as an "elasticity of space," suggesting a theoretical framework for understanding this relationship.
  • Some participants question the nature of mass and spacetime, debating whether they are continuous or discrete, and how this distinction might affect the understanding of gravitational effects.
  • References to external sources and discussions are provided, including arguments for the discreteness of spacetime and its implications for gravitational theory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of spacetime and mass, with no consensus reached on whether there is a minimum mass required to affect spacetime or how to conceptualize the relationship between mass and spacetime elasticity.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the nature of spacetime and mass, with references to both classical and quantum theories. Limitations in definitions and unresolved mathematical considerations are acknowledged but not resolved.

dbullard
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I am curious if there has been any research into the elasticity of spacetime in regards to mass. If we consider that a fabric is resistive to a degree to an object it could be said that an object must poses a certain amount of mass before it can cause a divet in spacetime.
 
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I am curious if there has been any research into the elasticity of spacetime in regards to mass.

Einstein was the first such master. Or maybe Lorentz Fitzgerald for special relativity "elasticity"...

More generally, you are asking about general relativity, how gravity "gravitational potential" "warps" spacetime...gravitational curvature causes tidal effects.

A black hole is the "ultimate warper" crushing space and time and mass out of existence!
 
i am curious as to something i heard about micro-gravity. If spacetime has a certian elasticity such that only objects of a "particular mass or graeter" have an effect on it.
If i think of it as a bed sheet with a marble placed on it the sheet bends but if i put only a thin piece of plastic on it it would not move at all. I believe that maybe there is something to that in gravity is an effect of mass on spacetime but there is a minimum mass needed to begin effecting it.
 
dbullard said:
I am curious if there has been any research into the elasticity of spacetime in regards to mass. If we consider that a fabric is resistive to a degree to an object it could be said that an object must poses a certain amount of mass before it can cause a divet in spacetime.
Are you talking about a 'quantum of curvature'?
 
Einstein did not think of it as a sheet of rubber 'bending'. It's commonly used as a 2 dimensional analogue to the way gravity is space's 'metric' but I find it better to think of it as a 'Jello' that will adapt relative motion/mass/gravity/'energy'. And if you look out on the universe a dark night every star you see will have a (different) relative motion, relative you observing. That means that the universe you see is both time dilated and Lorentz contracted, which may seem weird :) but it's all a result of the invariant radiation describing what you look at.

That's also why you can't really define a time dilation, other than the twin experiment, where the twin has to come home first to 'prove it'. But it is real, both the Lorentz contraction and the time dilation, and they must be different, relative different stars.

But what communicates it all is that same 'propagating' light, coming at you at the same invariant 'speed', and that light paints the 'whole image' you obtain from observing that night sky. Think of that the next time you look up :)
 
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before you reach a conclusion, you should decide what is your conception of mass and spacetime...are they continuous or discrete?? (Nobody really knows.)

I believe that maybe there is something to that in gravity is an effect of mass on spacetime but there is a minimum mass needed to begin effecting it.

GR assumes a continuous spacetime; quantum gravity may end up with a quantized gravitational theory. So in the former there is no minimum, in the latter, maybe could be.


Some references for consideration:

I kept this for my own notes from another thread here:


http://pirsa.org/09090005/

Spacetime can be simultaneously discrete and continuous, in the same way that information can.
In this thread

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=391989

"argument for the discreteness of spacetime",

Ben Crowell posted this question...
The following is a paraphrase of an argument for the discreteness of spacetime, made by Smolin in his popular-level book Three Roads to Quantum Gravity. The Bekenstein bound says there's a limit on how much information can be stored within a given region of space. If spacetime could be described by continuous classical fields with infinitely many degrees of freedom, then there would be no such limit. Therefore spacetime is discrete.

some good discussion.
 
nice :)
 

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