Is this correct?Is f onto if g∘f is onto and g is one-to-one?

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves functions f: X→Y and g: Y→Z, with the task of proving or disproving the statement that if the composition g∘f is onto and g is one-to-one, then f must also be onto. The discussion centers around concepts in function mapping and properties of onto and one-to-one functions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster expresses uncertainty about how to approach the proof, suggesting a belief in the truth of the statement but struggling to formulate a rigorous argument. They mention assumptions about the functions and their properties but feel stuck on how to proceed.
  • One participant suggests proving by contradiction, prompting the original poster to consider what can be inferred about g(y) if f(x) does not equal y for some y in Y.
  • Another participant points out a potential issue in the original poster's reasoning, highlighting a shift from existential to universal quantifiers in their argument.
  • There is a clarification that g is not assumed to be onto, which is a critical aspect of the discussion.

Discussion Status

Contextual Notes

The original poster is working under a deadline for an assignment and has expressed frustration with the problem. There is a noted confusion regarding the properties of the functions involved, particularly the assumption about g being onto.

IProto
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Homework Statement



Let f: X[tex]\rightarrow[/tex]Y and g: Y[tex]\rightarrow[/tex]Z be functions. Prove or disprove the following: if g[tex]\circ[/tex]f is onto and g is one-to-one then f is onto.

Homework Equations



N/A

The Attempt at a Solution



I'm honestly not sure what to do with this. I believe that the statement is true as I cannot think of an instance where it would be false, however actually proving it is another story. I know that:

since g[tex]\circ[/tex]f is onto that [tex]\forall[/tex]z[tex]\in[/tex]Z, [tex]\exists[/tex]x[tex]\in[/tex]X so that g[tex]\circ[/tex]f(x) = z

and I believe g must be onto so [tex]\forall[/tex]z[tex]\in[/tex]Z, [tex]\exists[/tex]y[tex]\in[/tex]Y so that g(y) = z.

and since g is one-to-one [tex]\forall[/tex]y,z[tex]\in[/tex]Y, if g(y) = g(z) then y=z.

I just don't know what to do with all of that. I've started by assuming y[tex]\in[/tex]Y and x[tex]\in[/tex]X but again I don't know what to do with those assumptions =\.

Since I believe the statement true I want to show [tex]\forall[/tex]y[tex]\in[/tex]Y, [tex]\exists[/tex]x[tex]\in[/tex]X si tgat f(x)=y.

Anyway I've been mashing my head against a wall over this to no avail so far. If anyone could help me I'd greatly appreciate it. This is for an assignment that's due tomorrow and it's the last one I'm unable to get. FYI the reason I said g is onto is from a previous question I had to show if g[tex]\circ[/tex]f is onto then g must be onto as well.

Oh, and sorry for the horrible formatting, I'm not to good with the formula creator.
 
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Prove it by contradiction. Pick a y in Y such that there is no x in X with f(x)=y. What next? What can you say about g(y)?
 
Before I do that I'm going to post what I was just working on, I may be onto something with a direct proof (no pun intended). Any comments appreciated.

Let f: X -> Y and g: Y-> Z be functions so that g is ont-to-one and gof is onto. Let z[tex]\in[/tex]Z. Since g is onto [tex]\exists[/tex]y[tex]\in[/tex]Y such that g(y)=z. Also, since gof is onto [tex]\exists[/tex]x[tex]\in[/tex]X such that gof(x)=z. Since gof is one-to-one and gof(x) = g(f(x)) = z = g(y) it follows that f(x) = y for all y,z[tex]\in[/tex]Y. This gives us [tex]\forall[/tex]y[tex]\in[/tex]Y,[tex]\exists[/tex]x[tex]\in[/tex]X such that f(x)=y, thus f is onto.
 
Sort of. But it's not too clear. You start out saying that there exists a y, and at the end it changes to for all y. You should start out by saying for ALL y (something, something) and end up saying, there EXISTS an x.
 
IProto said:
Before I do that I'm going to post what I was just working on, I may be onto something with a direct proof (no pun intended). Any comments appreciated.

Let f: X -> Y and g: Y-> Z be functions so that g is ont-to-one and gof is onto. Let z[tex]\in[/tex]Z. Since g is onto [tex]\exists[/tex]y[tex]\in[/tex]Y such that g(y)=z.
You were NOT given that g is onto. The only condition on g is that it is one-to-one.

Also, since gof is onto [tex]\exists[/tex]x[tex]\in[/tex]X such that gof(x)=z. Since gof is one-to-one and gof(x) = g(f(x)) = z = g(y) it follows that f(x) = y for all y,z[tex]\in[/tex]Y. This gives us [tex]\forall[/tex]y[tex]\in[/tex]Y,[tex]\exists[/tex]x[tex]\in[/tex]X such that f(x)=y, thus f is onto.
 

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