Is this even possible? Question about Fourier Series....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of how to express the function ##\sin(3x - x_0)## as a Fourier series and the expectations of a related exam problem. Participants explore the implications of writing a trigonometric function in terms of a Fourier series, the nature of Fourier coefficients, and the complexity of the integrals involved.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the necessity of representing a basic sine function as a Fourier series, questioning the application of Fourier series to an already trigonometric function.
  • Another participant clarifies that the function can be rewritten using trigonometric identities, suggesting that this form may simplify finding Fourier coefficients.
  • A participant acknowledges the constants ##\cos(x_0)## and ##\sin(x_0)## but doubts that this simplification will ease the complexity of the integrals required for finding coefficients.
  • Concerns are raised about the difficulty of the integrals involved in calculating the coefficients, with one participant noting that their attempts in Mathematica have not yielded neat results.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the Fourier series consists of constants and trigonometric functions, suggesting that the problem is akin to finding a Maclaurin series for a polynomial.
  • A later reply reiterates that ##\sin(3x - x_0)## does not fit the standard form of a Fourier series and stresses the importance of treating ##x_0## as a constant in calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and feasibility of representing ##\sin(3x - x_0)## as a Fourier series. There is no consensus on whether the approach suggested will simplify the problem or if the integrals will remain complex.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the integrals for finding the Fourier coefficients may be complicated and that the problem's context, including the period of the function, could affect the results.

sa1988
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Today I had a maths exam with a question which was worded something like:

Write ##sin(3x-x_0)## as its Fourier representation. By doing a suitable integral or otherwise, find the possible values of its Fourier coefficients. You may find the following useful:

##sin(\alpha-\beta) = sin(\alpha)cos(\beta) - cos(\alpha)sin(\beta)##.

5 marks.

I simply do not understand what was expected of me here. How is it even possible, or at least necessary, to write a basic sin function as a Fourier series? I thought the idea of the Fourier series was to write functions as a series of trig terms, so it makes no sense applying the concept to a function which is already trigonometric.

Does anyone have an alternative view on this?

Thanks.
 
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sa1988 said:
Today I had a maths exam with a question which was worded something like:

Write ##sin(3x-x_0)## as its Fourier representation. By doing a suitable integral or otherwise, find the possible values of its Fourier coefficients. You may find the following useful:

##sin(\alpha-\beta) = sin(\alpha)cos(\beta) - cos(\alpha)sin(\beta)##.

5 marks.

I simply do not understand what was expected of me here. How is it even possible, or at least necessary, to write a basic sin function as a Fourier series? I thought the idea of the Fourier series was to write functions as a series of trig terms, so it makes no sense applying the concept to a function which is already trigonometric.

Does anyone have an alternative view on this?

Thanks.
The Fourier series for sin(x) is, as you recognize, very simple, since the series would consist of one term. But your problem is not as simple, with the function being ##\sin(3x - x_0)##. Using the hint, this function can be written as ##\sin(3x)\cos(x_0) - \sin(x_0)\cos(3x)##, where ##\cos(x_0)## and ##\sin(x_0)## are constants. This expanded form makes it much simpler to find the coefficients of the terms in the Fourier series.
 
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Mark44 said:
The Fourier series for sin(x) is, as you recognize, very simple, since the series would consist of one term. But your problem is not as simple, with the function being ##\sin(3x - x_0)##. Using the hint, this function can be written as ##\sin(3x)\cos(x_0) - \sin(x_0)\cos(3x)##, where ##\cos(x_0)## and ##\sin(x_0)## are constants. This expanded form makes it much simpler to find the coefficients of the terms in the Fourier series.

Thanks for the response.

I can see that ##\cos(x_0)## and ##\sin(x_0)## are constants but I can't see how that would make it any easier to solve.

Surely the integrals for finding the coefficients are still going to be incredibly ugly.

For example, in finding the coefficient ##a_n##, where I've used the standard definition taught in my classes:

##a_n = \frac{2}{L} \! \int_{-\frac{-L}{2}}^{\frac{L}{2}} \! f(x)\cos(\frac{2n\pi x}{L}) \, \mathrm{d}x##

##a_n = \frac{2}{L} \! \int_{-\frac{-L}{2}}^{\frac{L}{2}} \! \Big(\sin(3x)\cos(x_0) - \sin(x_0)\cos(3x)\Big)\cos(\frac{2n\pi x}{L}) \, \mathrm{d}x##

where ##L = \frac{2\pi}{3}## for ##\sin(3x-x_0)##

I've punched variations of this into Mathematica and none of it seems to show anything neat or easy.
 
You're making it way too difficult. What is a Fourier series? It's a sum of trigonometric functions times coefficients. What are coefficients? Coefficients are constants.

This type of problem is the Fourier equivalent of problems like asking what the Maclaurin series of (3x - a)^3 is.

Granted, with Fourier series the answer changes if the problem states an L or period different from the period of the expression in question, but the way you stated it, that subtlety doesn't apply in this case.
 
sa1988 said:
Thanks for the response.

I can see that ##\cos(x_0)## and ##\sin(x_0)## are constants but I can't see how that would make it any easier to solve.

Surely the integrals for finding the coefficients are still going to be incredibly ugly.

For example, in finding the coefficient ##a_n##, where I've used the standard definition taught in my classes:

##a_n = \frac{2}{L} \! \int_{-\frac{-L}{2}}^{\frac{L}{2}} \! f(x)\cos(\frac{2n\pi x}{L}) \, \mathrm{d}x##

##a_n = \frac{2}{L} \! \int_{-\frac{-L}{2}}^{\frac{L}{2}} \! \Big(\sin(3x)\cos(x_0) - \sin(x_0)\cos(3x)\Big)\cos(\frac{2n\pi x}{L}) \, \mathrm{d}x##

where ##L = \frac{2\pi}{3}## for ##\sin(3x-x_0)##
The integral above can be simplified (and should be) to
##a_n = \frac{2}{L} [ \int_{-\frac{-L}{2}}^{\frac{L}{2}} (\sin(3x) \cos(\frac{2n\pi x}{L}) dx - \sin(x_0) \int_{-\frac{-L}{2}} ^ {\frac{-L}{2}}\cos(3x) \cos(\frac{2n\pi x}{L}) \, dx]##
I think you'll find that a lot of the coefficients are zero.
sa1988 said:
I've punched variations of this into Mathematica and none of it seems to show anything neat or easy.
 
The Fourier series (without further conditions) is expected to be a series whose summands are each a constant, or a constant times sin(nx) for some integer n ≥ 1, or a contant times cos(nx) for some integer n ≥ 1.

IMPORTANT: Note that sin(3x - x0) is not in this form!

You need to do something to either calculate the coefficients of the Fourier series of sin(3x - x0) by the usual integral formula, or find a simpler way to express sin(3x - x0) in terms of what is mentioned in the first paragraph.

Do not forget that x0 is a constant! Which means that any function of this constant is also a constant, and therefore can be easily manipulated like a constant in any calculations — if need be!
 

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