Can Fourier Analysis Represent Any Function Using Sin and Cos?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the representation of functions using Fourier series, specifically focusing on the use of sine and cosine functions. Participants explore the concepts of orthogonality, periodic functions, and the historical context of Fourier's work, as well as the mathematical foundations of Fourier analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that Fourier's use of sine and cosine functions is based on the idea that there exists an interval where the integral of a function multiplied by sine is zero, leading to the conclusion that any function can be represented by these functions due to their orthogonality.
  • Another participant counters this claim, stating that not all functions can be represented in this way and clarifies that sine and cosine functions are orthogonal to each other but not to all functions.
  • A participant questions why Fourier specifically chose sine and cosine from the set of orthogonal functions, indicating a need for further clarification on this choice.
  • There is mention of the wave equation as an inspiration for Fourier's work, suggesting a historical context for the development of Fourier analysis.
  • Some participants express the complexity of the topic, with one stating that the problem is difficult, while another acknowledges the power of Fourier analysis in scientific applications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of Fourier series to all functions, with some asserting that it is limited to periodic functions, while others maintain a broader interpretation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent of Fourier analysis's applicability and the specific reasons for the choice of sine and cosine functions.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of orthogonality and the conditions under which Fourier series can represent functions. The discussion also highlights the dependence on the periodicity of functions for the application of Fourier series.

LLT71
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has Fourier used sin(x) and cos(x) in his series because "there must be such interval [a,b] where integral of "some function"*sin(x) on that interval will be zero?" so based on that he concluded that any function can be represented by infinite sum of sin(x) and cos(x) cause they are "orthogonal" to any function.

let me recall my last thread on "orthogonality" as well to see if I got it right or missed the whole point:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/orthogonality-of-functions.891717/#post-5611182

extra question: is there possibility that you can find such "a" and "b" where ∫f(x)dx from a to b = zero or at least "try" using some "equation" or so?

thanks!
 
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LLT71 said:
any function can be represented by infinite sum of sin(x) and cos(x) cause they are "orthogonal" to any function
That's not the case and that's not the idea.
You know a little about music ? There are tones and there are overtones (harmonics).
Let's keep it simple and start with periodic functions: functions for which ##f(x+T)=f(x)##. Such ##f## can be written as $$ f(x) = \sum A_n\sin\left ({2\pi nx \over T}\right ) + B_n\cos\left ({2\pi nx \over T}\right )$$precisely because the functions ## sin\left ({2\pi nx \over T}\right ) ## and ## cos\left ({2\pi nx \over T}\right ) ## are orthogonal (wrt each other -- NOT wrt any function). See here what that means.

(If they were orthogonal to any function, all the ##A_n## and ##B_n## would be zero and you wouldn't get anywhere with your summation :smile: )
 
BvU said:
See here what that means.

sorry for late reply (was away from home). your link doesn't work somehow. ok let's reformulate my question: out of all orthogonal functions why did he particularly choosed sin(x) and cos(x)?
 
Because Fourier was inspired by the wave equation.
 
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LLT71 said:
sorry for late reply (was away from home). your link doesn't work somehow. ok let's reformulate my question: out of all orthogonal functions why did he particularly choosed sin(x) and cos(x)?
Harmonics is google search for "harmonic analysis in Fourier series" (google forced a .nl instead of .com in there, perhaps that's the reason it doesn't work).
The other was a paste error and I can't find it back. Crux was that $$\int \sin 2\pi nx \sin 2\pi mx =\delta_{nm}$$ (with some normalization) etc, as here or in point 6 here

:smile:
 
BvU said:
Harmonics is google search for "harmonic analysis in Fourier series" (google forced a .nl instead of .com in there, perhaps that's the reason it doesn't work).
The other was a paste error and I can't find it back. Crux was that $$\int \sin 2\pi nx \sin 2\pi mx =\delta_{nm}$$ (with some normalization) etc, as here or in point 6 here

:smile:
thank you!
 
the problem is difficult!
 
Hello Annarosy, :welcome:

It is and it is not. But Fourier analysis definitely is a very powerful tool in science, so it's worth investing an effort.

micromass said:
Because Fourier was inspired by the wave equation
Check out (our google one that suits your tastes better) e.g. here or http://www.math.harvard.edu/archive/21b_fall_07/handouts/heat_and_wave_equation.pdf
 
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