Is This Expression for Electrostatic Potential Valid Under the Jellium Model?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of a specific expression for electrostatic potential under the Jellium model, particularly focusing on its Fourier representation and implications for calculations involving electron interactions in a finite volume box.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants confirm that the expression presented is a Fourier representation of the Coulomb interaction, noting the exclusion of the q=0 term relates to the interaction with a homogeneous positive background.
  • Concerns are raised about the loss of translation symmetry when using single particle wavefunctions that depend explicitly on position, suggesting this could complicate the Jellium model calculations.
  • One participant questions whether integrating over the box volume while using periodic boundary conditions would yield valid results for Coulomb integrals, expressing uncertainty about the implications of Dirac functions in this context.
  • Another participant mentions the computational challenges of using sine and cosine functions for numerical integration, indicating a willingness to accept inefficiencies if the underlying physics is sound.
  • A request for clarification on the specific calculations being pursued is made, indicating a focus on determining the ground-state energy of N electrons in the box.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the nature of the expression as a Fourier representation of the Coulomb potential, but there remains uncertainty regarding the implications of boundary conditions and the integration approach. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the best method for calculations or the validity of assumptions made.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential issues with translation symmetry and the treatment of boundary conditions, as well as unresolved questions about the integration methods and their effects on the results.

Morberticus
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I have seen the Fourier transform of the coulomb potential quite often.

However, I have come across a sum expression for an electrostatic potential

V_{cb}(r-r') = \frac{1}{V}\sum_{q \neq 0} \frac{4\pi}{q^2}e^{iq(r-r')}

It is equation (2.6) here: http://people.web.psi.ch/mudry/FALL01/lecture03.pdf

I have assumed this is the coulomb integral. Is it? Has anyone come across such an expression before? Is it valid to take such an expansion for the coulomb integral in a box of finite volume, under the Jellium model?
 
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Yes, it's a Fourier representation of the Coulomb interaction. Note that excluding the term with q=0 is due a subtraction of the energy of the interaction with the homogeneous positive background.
I think the main problem in solving your jellium in a box model is that the single particle wavefunctions are now of the form sin and cos and have an explicit dependence on x, while the eigenfunctions with periodic boundary conditions depend on x only via a rather trivial phase factor. I.e. you loose translation symmetry, which will probably kill you.
As a poster in your other thread already remarked, you probably will have to resort to semi-empirical methods like LDA density functional theory.
 
DrDu said:
Yes, it's a Fourier representation of the Coulomb interaction. Note that excluding the term with q=0 is due a subtraction of the energy of the interaction with the homogeneous positive background.
I think the main problem in solving your jellium in a box model is that the single particle wavefunctions are now of the form sin and cos and have an explicit dependence on x, while the eigenfunctions with periodic boundary conditions depend on x only via a rather trivial phase factor. I.e. you loose translation symmetry, which will probably kill you.
As a poster in your other thread already remarked, you probably will have to resort to semi-empirical methods like LDA density functional theory.

Thanks for the confirmation.

If I used periodic boundary conditions (which I am guessing would correspond to an 'open' box), would I still be integrating over just the volume of the box for <ab|V|cd>? With periodic functions, if I integrate over infinity, I stumble across products of dirac functions and dirac-orthogonality stops me. If I integrate over the box, I get a sum of well-behaved functions that look like sinc functions that are simple to work with.

So if I were to, say, interpret the box as an 'open' box, can I treat the periodic functions as usual (i.e. Normalise them over the volume of the box and build coulomb integrals by integrating over just the box)?

If I can't, I have written a numerical program that generates the integrals using sin and cos functions, and a finite number of terms for the coulomb representation (from -100 to 100) and certainly kills me in terms of computational time (but it is easily parallelised so I'm not too worried about that). When you said it will kill me, do you mean it in another way? If the physics is sound, I can live with inefficiency.
 
What do you want to calculate, exactly?
 
DrDu said:
What do you want to calculate, exactly?

Essentially the ground-state energy of N electrons in a box.
 

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