Is Wastewater Recycling the Solution to Extreme Drought?

[bob012345]

Due to the extreme drought, what is the minimum amount of water required to wash a small car such as a Corolla and how would you do it?

 

[berkeman]

If you go to a car wash place (either the gas station automated things or self-service car washes), they generally recycle the water. It's more of a hassle than doing it at home, but "greener" during the drought.

 

[bob012345]

If you go to a car wash place (either the gas station automated things or self-service car washes), they generally recycle the water. It's more of a hassle than doing it at home, but "greener" during the drought.

I could recycle the water by washing the car on my lawn...

 

[berkeman]

I could recycle the water by washing the car on my lawn...

Sort of, but your lawn may not like all of the soap (have you tasted it?)

 

[bob012345]

Sort of, but your lawn may not like all of the soap (have you tasted it?)

Is there a biodegradable soap that won't hurt the grass in small amounts?

As for tasting soap, yes actually. At the beginning of the pandemic I would come home and wash hands, face and even rinse out my mouth with soapy water then peroxide. Overkill I think now but I never got sick.

 

[bob012345]

Well, it didn't taste that bad.

Anyway, My car washing idea is along the lines of two buckets, one soapy and one for rinse water. Giving the car more of a sponge bath. Surely, even the recycled water in a commercial car wash has to lose a gallon or two to evaporation off all the surfaces and ground? I think I could do at least as good. So, two gallons minimum?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Overkill I think

LOL you think correctly. Did you clean everything you brought into the house? I did and that was a lot of work! Shopping was such a pain! But it made sense.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

If you go to a car wash place (either the gas station automated things or self-service car washes), they generally recycle the water. It's more of a hassle than doing it at home, but "greener" during the drought.

We have a brand new super-green car wash by my place and I LOVE it!

 

[DaveC426913]

On Rigel XII you don't need any water at all.

 

[bob012345]

LOL you think correctly. Did you clean everything you brought into the house? I did and that was a lot of work! Shopping was such a pain! But it made sense.

Nah. At first I wiped the grocery packages down but after a while they said that wasn't necessary so I stopped.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Nah. At first I wiped the grocery packages down but after a while they said that wasn't necessary so I stopped.

When did they say it wasn't necessary? From what I read, that wasn't determined until fairly late in the game. I don't think I stopped until late last year when it was announced that most transmission was airborne.

 

[berkeman]

As for tasting soap, yes actually. At the beginning of the pandemic I would come home and wash hands, face and even rinse out my mouth with soapy water then peroxide.

Soapy water instead of diluted hydrogen peroxide (H2O2)? Did you read to do that somewhere? I've never heard that before...

 

[JT Smith]

Couldn't you just pee on it a little every day?

 

[bob012345]

Soapy water instead of diluted hydrogen peroxide (H2O2)? Did you read to do that somewhere? I've never heard that before...

No, I didn't read that anywhere it was just my own paranoid cleansing ritual. Probably because I had heard experts say soapy water destroys the virus outer shell and renders it non-functional. I used a small amount of soapy water, then rinse and then followed with a swig of peroxide which is commonly used as an oral agent. I could have and should have just swigged with diluted peroxide.

 

[bob012345]

When did they say it wasn't necessary? From what I read, that wasn't determined until fairly late in the game. I don't think I stopped until late last year when it was announced that most transmission was airborne.

I heard Dr. Sanjay Gupta discuss his views on CNN. Sure, it wasn't a study but it was enough for me.

 

[bob012345]

Couldn't you just pee on it a little every day?

Wastewater recycling is part of the future.

https://www.cnn.com/2014/05/01/world/from-toilet-to-tap-water/index.html

 

[bob012345]

I did the experiment. I washed my car with less than one gallon of water! It required a lot of elbow grease in place of a lot of water. I then went overboard and gave it a final rinse, which it did not really need, with a whole gallon of clean water since I had already set it aside.

 

[russ_watters]

I did the experiment. I washed my car with less than one gallon of water! It required a lot of elbow grease in place of a lot of water. I then went overboard and gave it a final rinse, which it did not really need, with a whole gallon of clean water since I had already set it aside.

Did the last gallon of clean water drip off clean or sudsy? I don't thin it is impossible to wash and rinse a car with two gallons of water and an extreme effort, but it would be very difficult.

Google tells me a car wash uses between 8 and 85 gallons per car depending on the water conservation features. From working on industrial washers of other things, I would expect that a modern car wash re-uses the rinse water as fresh/makeup for the wash water, and siphons an equal amount of wash water off to drain.

 

[berkeman]

I washed my car with less than one gallon of water! It required a lot of elbow grease in place of a lot of water.

And you most likely scratched up / de-shined your car's finish pretty seriously. Have a nice day.

 

[bob012345]

Did the last gallon of clean water drip off clean or sudsy? I don't thin it is impossible to wash and rinse a car with two gallons of water and an extreme effort, but it would be very difficult.

Google tells me a car wash uses between 8 and 85 gallons per car depending on the water conservation features. From working on industrial washers of other things, I would expect that a modern car wash re-uses the rinse water as fresh/makeup for the wash water, and siphons an equal amount of wash water off to drain.

Clean. I used very little soap, a few drops really.

 

[256bits]

Clean. I used very little soap, a few drops really.

Depends upon how dirty the car was to begin with.
One bucket of soap wash, with a bucket of rinse is fine as long as you haven't been playing in mud puddles.
Been there. Done that with a bucket of water or two.
The most difficult part was the running board area.

Anyways, if the vehicle ahead of you at an automatic car wash was playing in mud puddles, the grit from that vehicle gets attached to the 'mops' ( whatever they are called ) and ends up ruining your finish with scratches.

Safer to do it your way, or go to one of the coin operated sites with the pressure washer. You will end up using way less water than the automatic ones.

 

[ProfuselyQuarky]

My mate used a damp washcloth to clean his car every morning for about half a year when he bought his "dream car". Extremely inefficient and constantly subject to ridicule but the car was clean

 

[bob012345]

My mate used a damp washcloth to clean his car every morning for about half a year when he bought his "dream car". Extremely inefficient and constantly subject to ridicule but the car was clean

I used a smaller sponge so as to control how much water was soaked up so there was less runoff. Basically just like painting with a narrow brush instead of a wide brush. It takes more work.

 

[bob012345]

And you most likely scratched up / de-shined your car's finish pretty seriously. Have a nice day.

Elbow grease in the sense of hard work not hard physical rubbing. For me at my age and shape, going over the whole car with a smaller sponge to control water waste was a lot more work than if I used a big soapy sponge and a water hose.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/elbow grease

 

[JT Smith]

While it's kind of sideways to the specific question I think the best approach to minimizing car washing water is simply to not wash the car very often. It's almost entirely a cosmetic thing.

 

[russ_watters]

Well if we're going outside the box, I got a ceramic coating applied to my car which is hard and hydrophobic. One of the benefits is less need for washes/staying cleaner.

 

[bob012345]

Well if we're going outside the box, I got a ceramic coating applied to my car which is hard and hydrophobic. One of the benefits is less need for washes/staying cleaner.

I rarely wash my car as it is. I was just interested in the question of saving water because of the drought. What is this hydrophobic material?

 

[russ_watters]

I rarely wash my car as it is. I was just interested in the question of saving water because of the drought. What is this hydrophobic material?

https://royalcustomauto.com/ceramic/

 

[bob012345]

While it's kind of sideways to the specific question I think the best approach to minimizing car washing water is simply to not wash the car very often. It's almost entirely a cosmetic thing.

Is only cosmetic? In the summer heat a dirty car will reflect less heat away and get hotter thus using more fuel to cool.

 

[bob012345]

Here is information that claims one will damage their car not using specialty products to clean it. They say use special paint safe soaps and microfiber towels. I'm skeptical it makes that much difference especially since I used very small amounts of dish soap and an old cotton towel. However I'm happy to get good quality car soap and 'microfiber' towels for next time I wash my car which will probably by in '24 or so.

https://www.powerstop.com/summer-car-cleaning-detailing-mistakes/

 

[JT Smith]

Is only cosmetic? In the summer heat a dirty car will reflect less heat away and get hotter thus using more fuel to cool.

I said "mostly" not "only".

Show me the fuel use data on your dirty hot car theory.

I think car washing is about 90% vanity and 10% utility. The utility part includes looking good for people you feel you must impress, like your boss or girlfriend, as well as the possibility that dirt damages the paint or maybe costs you a tiny bit more in fuel. With occasional exceptions I usually just wait for it to rain. A violent hailstorm (stones not too big) is even better as the graupel leaves a buff shine when it's done.

But whatever. If you have to spend significant extra money on gasoline or electricity to cool your hot, dirty car maybe it's worth it if the goal is to save water. Maybe you can wash your car in gasoline.

 

[russ_watters]

I think car washing is about 90% vanity and 10% utility.

While I somewhat agree, I'd like to see a study attempting to correlate car cleanliness with bathroom cleanliness. I suspect they'd find one. Also, if one isn't washing the outside, does that mean they aren't washing the inside either? I've seen some gross interiors...

From a practical standpoint, I also hate it when I happen to brush past my car and end up with a cleaner car and dirtier pants/shirt.

 

[256bits]

While it's kind of sideways to the specific question I think the best approach to minimizing car washing water is simply to not wash the car very often. It's almost entirely a cosmetic thing.

You till have to clean somewhat - leaves, bird poop, tree sap, and hornets or wasps taking up residence.
https://pestlockdown.com/how-to-eas... also recommended to,spray from 10+ feet away.

 

[256bits]

While I somewhat agree, I'd like to see a study attempting to correlate car cleanliness with bathroom cleanliness. I suspect they'd find one. Also, if one isn't washing the outside, does that mean they aren't washing the inside either? I've seen some gross interiors...

From a practical standpoint, I also hate it when I happen to brush past my car and end up with a cleaner car and dirtier pants/shirt.

When I moved from west to central N.America I definitely noticed a more dusty car.
Cleaner air out west and the car stayed shiny for days.
Maybe its the big city with its pollution. Could be that though.

 

[bob012345]

I said "mostly" not "only".

Show me the fuel use data on your dirty hot car theory.

I think car washing is about 90% vanity and 10% utility. The utility part includes looking good for people you feel you must impress, like your boss or girlfriend, as well as the possibility that dirt damages the paint or maybe costs you a tiny bit more in fuel. With occasional exceptions I usually just wait for it to rain. A violent hailstorm (stones not too big) is even better as the graupel leaves a buff shine when it's done.

But whatever. If you have to spend significant extra money on gasoline or electricity to cool your hot, dirty car maybe it's worth it if the goal is to save water. Maybe you can wash your car in gasoline.

You are correct in that I should not have said only. Sorry.

There are many sources that prove car color has an impact of interior temperature in the sun which can be attributed to the absorption and reflection coefficients. Here is some visual proof with a FLIR camera;

https://www.motor1.com/news/367916/thermal-video-black-cars-hot/

Here is more conventional data;

https://phys.org/news/2011-10-silver-white-cars-cooler.html

It stands to reason that a dirt layer will make a car darker and less reflective and thus hotter at least in principle as dirt is known to be a good absorber of heat as it lowers the albedo of the surface.https://scied.ucar.edu/activity/12101/print-all

 

[JT Smith]

So you don't have any data. That's okay. Most people on the internet don't.

Suppose you have a car with black paint. Would dirt make it better?

Why not just get a smaller car? Or sweat a little instead of turning on the A/C? My car doesn't have air conditioning. When it's super hot I open all the windows and pour a bottle of water over myself and wonder why didn't I spend that extra $800 on the A/C?

The sole focus on saving water is the crux. Is that what you really care about?

 

[russ_watters]

Alright, let's relax here. We're talking about washing cars.

 

[bob012345]

So you don't have any data. That's okay. Most people on the internet don't.

Suppose you have a car with black paint. Would dirt make it better?

Why not just get a smaller car? Or sweat a little instead of turning on the A/C? My car doesn't have air conditioning. When it's super hot I open all the windows and pour a bottle of water over myself and wonder why didn't I spend that extra $800 on the A/C?

The sole focus on saving water is the crux. Is that what you really care about?

My 'dirty car theory' is not meant as a serious scientific thesis to argue about because we are discussing this in the Lounge, which is less formal. I think there is indirect evidence to support it which I gave you but this is meant to be a lighthearted discussion about saving some water. I meant it to be fun.

I do believe a dirty black car would be slightly hotter than a shiny clean black car because I think the albedo would be less. But the difference might be small. I'd have to do a controlled experiment.

My car is already small, a Corolla. I suppose I could get a mini Cooper.

No, saving water is not what I really care about. It's just an interesting topic to discuss during the drought.

 

[JT Smith]

I apologize if I came across harsh. You can't see my face in order to tell that I'm also just having fun.

I guess my opinion is that the minimum amount of water to wash a car is essentially zero since washing a car is rarely necessary. If you take that tack then car washing is so far down the list of water consumption activities that it's not worth worrying about. Every time you flush your toilet or take a shower you render the whole car washing thing insignificant.

I'm a lightweight backpacker and I've spent many hours obsessing over grams of weight of items. Sometimes these small differences add up to significant weight. But most of the time I'm just having fun shaving toothbrush handles.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I confess that I have once or twice "washed" my car by taking it out of the garage and out into the rain. This works so long as the rain is cleaner than the car.

 

[bob012345]

I apologize if I came across harsh. You can't see my face in order to tell that I'm also just having fun.

I guess my opinion is that the minimum amount of water to wash a car is essentially zero since washing a car is rarely necessary. If you take that tack then car washing is so far down the list of water consumption activities that it's not worth worrying about. Every time you flush your toilet or take a shower you render the whole car washing thing insignificant.

I'm a lightweight backpacker and I've spent many hours obsessing over grams of weight of items. Sometimes these small differences add up to significant weight. But most of the time I'm just having fun shaving toothbrush handles.

Thanks. It's all fine. Though I have to admit when you suggested I pee on my car and wash it with gasoline I was tempted to invite you to wash your mouth out with soap like I did as mentioned in post#5... but I refrained.

You make good points about water consumption but as for flushing toilets, I take it then you don't have an outhouse in your backyard?

https://www.theguardian.com/global/...t-clean-water-waste-fertiliser-eco-revolution

But seriously, the coming trend is wastewater being recycled to clean water anyway as mentioned in post #16.

 

[JT Smith]

No, we don't have an outhouse. Is it even legal in the city?

I've been hearing about wastewater recycling for many years. People are adverse to the idea so even as the west dries up it's going to be a hard sell. Interesting times ahead for sure. Even our drought resistant plants have been having a hard time in recent years. I used to never water them but now, ironically, as the drought worsens I am forced to water them occasionally... or let them die.

 

[bob012345]

No, we don't have an outhouse. Is it even legal in the city?

I've been hearing about wastewater recycling for many years. People are adverse to the idea so even as the west dries up it's going to be a hard sell. Interesting times ahead for sure. Even our drought resistant plants have been having a hard time in recent years. I used to never water them but now, ironically, as the drought worsens I am forced to water them occasionally... or let them die.

I wasn't too serious about the outhouse. I'd probably fall in it at some point if I had one.

I don't think the public will have much choice about wastewater treatment. In Orange County Ca, it already is in use. In a sense, wastewater is already naturally recycled anyway. The artificial process is just more direct.