Isolated/Closed Systems: Relativistic Thermodynamics Explained

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SUMMARY

This discussion centers on the definitions and distinctions between isolated and closed systems within the context of relativistic thermodynamics. Participants explore the implications of light and electromagnetic radiation in defining these systems, particularly in relation to Poynting's Theorem. The consensus is that both isolated and closed systems are characterized by no flow of invariant mass or energy, clarifying the initial confusion regarding their definitions.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of relativistic thermodynamics
  • Familiarity with electromagnetic radiation and Poynting's Theorem
  • Knowledge of special relativity (SR) and general relativity (GR)
  • Basic concepts of thermodynamic systems
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the implications of Poynting's Theorem in thermodynamic systems
  • Study the differences between isolated and closed systems in thermodynamics
  • Explore the role of electromagnetic radiation in relativistic frameworks
  • Examine case studies of isolated and closed systems in physics
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, students of thermodynamics, and anyone interested in the nuances of relativistic systems and electromagnetic theory will benefit from this discussion.

Twigg
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If you put everything in a rest frame, it seems as if it's impossible to tell an isolated system from a closed system (globally in SR, locally in GR). Am I off my rocker to think so?

There's at least one catch I've thought of so far: light. I can't say for sure that it satisfies either definition because it can't be dragged into a rest frame, but I also can't say it shouldn't be thought of as a closed or isolated system. It's counterintuitive in a 3space+1time worldview, because EM radiation behaves almost like a dissipative transport process as seen in Poynting's Theorem (flow of charges through an E field gives you a work that is distributed in an irreversible fashion as radiation). But could a 4-volume element full of EM radiation be called an isolated/closed system? If so, is the specific internal energy of that volume element defined? Or am I just completely off my rocker?
 
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Twigg said:
If you put everything in a rest frame, it seems as if it's impossible to tell an isolated system from a closed system

What are your definitions of "isolated" and "closed"?
 
Sorry for the late reply.

PeterDonis said:
What are your definitions of "isolated" and "closed"?

You hit the nail on the head, thanks. I was defining them both to be systems with no flow of invariant mass/energy in or out, so my question was a silly one. My bad.
 

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