It's not sure but Andromeda will likely hit us -- Is this true?

[Suekdccia]

Do some scientists think that Andromeda won't collide with our galaxy?

 

[russ_watters]

Do some scientists think that Andromeda won't collide with our galaxy?

Yes, "collide", but not "hit". Since galaxies are almost entirely empty space, there will be few or possibly even no collisions between actual objects during the process.

[Edit: Sorry if my reply is confusing. I missed that the question got inverted between the title and body]

 

[rootone]

It'll be more like two clouds merging than two cars crashing.

 

[newjerseyrunner]

I don't think that there are any scientists that think that. It's very obvious based on calculations of gravity and redshift. We know which direction Andromeda is moving relative to us, and we know the approximate mass of both galaxies, so not only are they confident that they'll merge, but they also have a pretty good idea of when: 4-5 billion years.

 

[phinds]

Do some scientists think that Andromeda won't collide with our galaxy?

Your question conflicts with your title, which is why you have gotten two seemingly contradictory answers to your question. That is, your QUESTION asks is it true that the collision won't happen and as newjerseyrunner states, that is not true. Your SUBJECT line asks will the collision happen and the other answers address this question and of course the answer is yes, it will happen

Please try to be more clear in the future.

 

[stefan r]

Yes, "collide", but not "hit". Since galaxies are almost entirely empty space, there will be few or possibly even no collisions between actual objects during the process.

Suppose two cars have a frontal collision while each is traveling at 100 kph. None of the 8 tires (10 with spares) make contact with any other tires. Window glass remains window glass. There is no battery-glass alloy. The cars are still recognizable as cars and the owners have them towed and scrapped individually. I would still say they "hit each other".

All of the features that we use to describe galaxies will change. Spiral arms and bars disappear. If the angle is right you could get a disk but that might as well be called a new disk. Milkomeda is more likely to be an elliptical galaxy than a spiral. The core black holes will merge. Many stars will be thrown out of the system into intergalactic space. Molecular clouds will be subjected to large ram pressure stress. Interstellar gas will heat up and ionize.

Most planets will be orbiting the same stars. The sun heating up will effect life on Earth much more than the galaxy merger.

Do some scientists think that Andromeda won't collide with our galaxy?

Some people think Earth is flat. So I am confident you can find someone to back a unique model of the cosmos.

Andromeda has a strong blue shift. That means it is coming this way fast. The uncertainty is how much sideways motion Andromeda has. An object in a elliptical orbit will also have a blue shift for part of the orbit. There are 2 sets of possible "sideways". The Triangulum galaxy is in the mix too. We can be very certain of impact/merger without knowing a detailed model of the galactic cores' spiral.

 

[russ_watters]

Your question conflicts with your title, which is why you have gotten two seemingly contradictory answers to your question.

Yep, I missed the inversion and my complete answer is "yes, they will collide".

 

[snorkack]

I don't think that there are any scientists that think that. It's very obvious based on calculations of gravity and redshift. We know which direction Andromeda is moving relative to us, and we know the approximate mass of both galaxies,

No, we don´t, actually.
We don´t know the proper motion very well, and we don´t know the mass at all well. Actually, the official estimates of the mass come from "timing argument", which is a circular argument.

 

[DrStupid]

The sun heating up will effect life on Earth much more than the galaxy merger.

I could imagine of a lot of ugly things happen during the merger. The central black holes will cross matter rich regions and therefore become active again, radiating a lot of unhealthy radiation. Tidal forces and direct collisions will force protostellar clouds to collapse and produce many new stars followed by super novae. Crossing dust clouds could dim the solar radiation. Close encounters of other stars may destabilize the Oort cloud and the Kuiper belt, resulting in lot of comets or even a new heavy bombardment. And being hit by a comet core from another star with a relative velocity of several hundred km/s would also be no fun.

 

[stefan r]

I could imagine of a lot of ugly things happen during the merger. The central black holes will cross matter rich regions and therefore become active again, radiating a lot of unhealthy radiation. Tidal forces and direct collisions will force protostellar clouds to collapse and produce many new stars followed by super novae. Crossing dust clouds could dim the solar radiation. Close encounters of other stars may destabilize the Oort cloud and the Kuiper belt, resulting in lot of comets or even a new heavy bombardment. And being hit by a comet core from another star with a relative velocity of several hundred km/s would also be no fun.

Arcturus, (α boo) has between 1.02 and 1.14 solar mass. It has a 26 solar radius and 170 solar luminosity. Here is a video demonstrating what concentrated what you can do with concentrated sunlight. Not sure how concentrated he got it but 10X magnification is probably the ball park. This will boil water and also melt the glass holding it.

The dust obscuring the sun might help a little bit but it is not nearly enough. A massive cloud of dust would also reflect heat around from all sides so Earth water would still boil.

 

[phinds]

Not sure how concentrated he got it but 10X magnification is probably the ball park.

Not even close. I estimate the screen is roughly 2'x3', so 864 square inches and the beam at the focal point is no more than 2"x2" (probably less) so 4 sq. in. giving a concentration factor of more like 200+

 

[stefan r]

Not even close. I estimate the screen is roughly 2'x3', so 864 square inches and the beam at the focal point is no more than 2"x2" (probably less) so 4 sq. in. giving a concentration factor of more like 200+

"Concentration factor" is not the same as "magnification". 10X magnification is 100X concentrated. 10X is typical for a magnifying glass. In the video most of the middle hot dog is burning. The entire egg fries. Both would suggest 0.1m (4inch) diameter. He has it more concentrated to melt the pennies. The screen came from a 50" Toshiba television.

We can also use 1.4 kW/m² to calculate. So 100 solar luminostiy at 1 au would be 140 kW/m². Not as much fun as the magnify glass IMO.

140 kW is 188 horsepower. So the sun as red giant should heat the hood of a car faster than the engine.

 

[DrStupid]

So the sun as red giant should heat the hood of a car faster than the engine.

Sun is no red giant during the merger.

 

[Anon5000]

Yes, "collide", but not "hit". Since galaxies are almost entirely empty space, there will be few or possibly even no collisions between actual objects during the process.

[Edit: Sorry if my reply is confusing. I missed that the question got inverted between the title and body]

But nevertheless, one cannot forget the fact that it may well upset the structure of our solar system by the intense gravitational forces! (UNLESS, our solar system is such a small unit, that all that will happen is that our solar system will be moved in one direction or another universally, and whatever orbit-based problems we'll encounter will only occur in terms of our entire system's trajectory)

I would also like to add that this and similar phenomena are so, SO far in the future that we'll have plenty of time to prepare. (I mean, even space travel is not that hard if you think about it, just build a rocket big enough, everything else is basic plumbing and engineering)

 

[phinds]

(I mean, even space travel is not that hard if you think about it, just build a rocket big enough, everything else is basic plumbing and engineering)

Nonsense.

 

[Anon5000]

Nonsense.

GASP I've upset the Time-Space continuum by daring to downplay space exploration as not being the greatest obstacle in mankind's history! It's ALMOST LIKE travel in space requires some food, some oxygen, and a sealed TANK. It's ALMOST LIKE space travel is one of the safest forms of travel, because there's LITERALLY NOTHING IN IT

 

[Vanadium 50]

Anon500, this is not helpful.

 

[newjerseyrunner]

The solar system is such a tiny dot in galactic terms that three would likely be little disruption. A star may whiz by a light year or so away, but the odds are that it'll be small and likely only knock a few comets out. This event will take place over billions of years itself, everything happens in extreme slow motion at cosmological scales and the distance from Pluto to the sun is 4 orders of magnitude smaller than the distance from the sun to the nearest star.

Also, there is a lot of stuff in space. Protons traveling near the speed of light, dust particles traveling at a fraction of it...

 

[stefan r]

But nevertheless, one cannot forget the fact that it may well upset the structure of our solar system by the intense gravitational forces! (UNLESS, our solar system is such a small unit, that all that will happen is that our solar system will be moved in one direction or another universally, and whatever orbit-based problems we'll encounter will only occur in terms of our entire system's trajectory)

A star (or massive body) that is orbiting around the center of the milky way is far more dangerous. It will be moving slowly relative to the sun which gives the gravity more time to disrupt orbits.

 

[phinds]

The galaxy cores have super massive black holes. We can utilize them for a gravity assist launch. Chemical rockets will not be big enough to launch a civilization scale invasion of the Virgo cluster. Compression from gravity pressure would ignite the chemicals in a rocket even if it is much smaller than Earth mass.

The 2nd post to which you are responding was nonsense (you will note that he was banned) and I don't find your response to be much better. You really need to give more thought to what you are talking about.

 

[stefan r]

The 2nd post to which you are responding was nonsense (you will note that he was banned) and I don't find your response to be much better. You really need to give more thought to what you are talking about.

I deleted it. Was off topic. There are other forums for that discussion.

I did not know how to see that someone was banned. Thanks for the information.

 

[davenn]

I did not know how to see that someone was banned.

you will see his nickname has a strike through