Jocks in High School end up work menial jobs?

[WarPhalange]

Where are yours?

 

[LightbulbSun]

No, if you are competing, you need to believe that you will win every time. It should be obvious that believing you will fail is not going to help you win.

It's not believing you will fail. It's putting things into perspective. I don't understand how putting things into perspective suddenly makes you lose your competitive edge?

 

[Evo]

It's not believing you will fail. It's putting things into perspective. I don't understand how putting things into perspective suddenly makes you lose your competitive edge?

To win you can't have doubts. You have to know that you are doing your best, you have to be doing your best. I work in an extremely competitive field where you have to win constantly in order to just keep your job. If you aren't the best and you don't know you are the best, you might as well quit. Winning as a living is the toughest thing you'll ever take on. There are high rewards, but there are high costs emotionally.

 

[LightbulbSun]

To win you can't have doubts. You have to know that you are doing your best, you have to be doing your best. I work in an extremely competitive field where you have to win constantly in order to just keep your job. If you aren't the best and you don't know you are the best, you might as well quit. Winning as a living is the toughest thing you'll ever take on. There are high rewards, but there are high costs emotionally.

Hmmm...well as a competitor I was always the analyzer/putting things into perspective. It never really hurt my overall performance.

 

[Moonbear]

Source: Study by Career Builder

Finally some stats! And, if we assume the usual 3% margin of error for survey results, that means the honor society members (i.e., nerds) and athletes are roughly doing equally as well as each other. Of course, there is some overlap in those groups too. We had several athletes in the honor society.

A: Well, we're playing a tough schedule this year. Our opponents record is around .550 so to expect us to win 60% of our games is being a bit idealistic. I'm hoping that if we win at least 58% of them then we'll have a shot at the postseason, possibly the division. I just think when you combine the fact that we probably have the toughest schedule in the league, along with the fact that we didn't really make any significant upgrades, that you shouldn't be too idealistic about the outcome of this season.


Of course, if you were a professional athlete and you gave that type of answer you'd be chastised for it because only cliches will suffice.

More important, your interview wouldn't be televised, because it wouldn't fit into the 15 sec space they have time to squeeze your sound bite into. Some of them are simply playing to what the reporters want.

 

[Evo]

Hmmm...well as a competitor I was always the analyzer/putting things into perspective. It never really hurt my overall performance.

Really? I never had a loss in 5 years. Can you say that?

Seriously, I do not think you understand the competitive mindset. Read some books by people that are successful in sports. I don't like sports, but it will give you an idea how successful people think when they compete.

 

[Cyrus]

Where are yours?

Im not the one making outragous claims, you are. So back them up, sport.

 

[Gokul43201]

Generally though, nerds make more money than average.

No, they DONT.

Im not the one making outragous claims, you are. So back them up, sport.

Clearly, both of you have made equally unsubstantiated claims.

 

[moose]

It doesn't matter what he believes, he should recognize that winning every time is near impossible. No amount of superman thinking could overcome that fact.

I play ping pong in competitive events. You know how many times I've gone against someone who I knew was better than me, but I won because I knew in my head that I would win? In my mind, I was very sure that I would win, and wouldn't allow myself to make mistakes because of that. The moment you think "chances are I will lose, because this person has been a far better player than me", you will lose. If you make a slight, tiny mistake, you will think "Damn, what a great player he is, forcing me to make mistakes like that". I don't know if any of this is getting through to you, but I have won far more games than I should have, through mental aspects alone.

EDIT:

Generally though, nerds make more money than average.

Jocks become CEOs while the nerds are his minions.*

*Disclaimer, I'm making claims I cannot back up with anything. I may also be completely making things up to allow for further conversation... who knows.

 

[LightbulbSun]

I play ping pong in competitive events. You know how many times I've gone against someone who I knew was better than me, but I won because I knew in my head that I would win? In my mind, I was very sure that I would win, and wouldn't allow myself to make mistakes because of that. The moment you think "chances are I will lose, because this person has been a far better player than me", you will lose. If you make a slight, tiny mistake, you will think "Damn, what a great player he is, forcing me to make mistakes like that". I don't know if any of this is getting through to you, but I have won far more games than I should have, through mental aspects alone.

Hmmm I could come up with many examples (backed by performance data) of mediocre players remaining mediocre throughout their career, but people highly praised them because they had a mental edge to them. So how do you explain the countless examples of people considered to have a mental edge, but end up having a mediocre professional career?

 

[LightbulbSun]

Really? I never had a loss in 5 years. Can you say that?

Seriously, I do not think you understand the competitive mindset. Read some books by people that are successful in sports. I don't like sports, but it will give you an idea how successful people think when they compete.

There's a difference between being confident and being pollyanna.

 

[Astronuc]

CareerBuilder.com asked over 6,000 full-time workers age 30 and older to categorize their high school persona, and then compared those personas in terms of job level, salary, industry and job satisfaction. Categories included personas such as student government, athlete, geek, honor society, cheerleader, drama club, teacher's pet and class clown.
...
Student government and honor society members and athletes ranked highest among those who earn an annual salary of $50,000 or more at 49 percent, 47 percent and 45 percent respectively.
...
cited by Gokul

Finally some stats! And, if we assume the usual 3% margin of error for survey results, that means the honor society members (i.e., nerds) and athletes are roughly doing equally as well as each other. Of course, there is some overlap in those groups too. We had several athletes in the honor society.

I don't think that students in student government or honor society are necessarily nerds, and that certainly wasn't the case at my high school. A number of top (academically) students, who were in student government and honor society, were popular in school. The president of the class the year ahead of mine had long hair, and he tended to be a bit anti-establishment.

In my graduating class, one of the class officers was the head cheerleader IIRC. We had a varity football player (running back) who was in my Calculus BC class, and he was a very nice guy and honors student.

Most of the kids in the honor society went on the places like Harvard, MIT, Caltech, Princeton, Yale, Standford, . . . . . , and they weren't all nerds, but in fact represented a broad spectrum of people, including athletes.

 

[Cyrus]

Clearly, both of you have made equally unsubstantiated claims.

Hey hey hey, don't ruin my fun busting peoples chops pal!

 

[lisab]

I enjoyed two sports as a young person - swimming, and badminton.

Yes, badminton. Not the gentle, congenial game played at backyard barbeques; the pace of the game we played was set by the teenage so-called "boat people" who just arrived in the US from Southeast Asia. In the game we played, the bird could rip your eye if it hit you wrong (this was before safety glasses were commonly worn).

I never saw any correlation between athletic ability and intellegence.

 

[~christina~]

I haven't met any, "jock" in my school. Maybe that's because I've been in the lab for most of the day. It's just going to get worse this coming semester. I might not even meet real people.

 

[LightbulbSun]

I enjoyed two sports as a young person - swimming, and badminton.

Yes, badminton. Not the gentle, congenial game played at backyard barbeques; the pace of the game we played was set by the teenage so-called "boat people" who just arrived in the US from Southeast Asia. In the game we played, the bird could rip your eye if it hit you wrong (this was before safety glasses were commonly worn).

I never saw any correlation between athletic ability and intellegence.

I love badminton.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

At my high school the jocks were mostly dumb. But ofcourse they weren't any dumber than the average student either.
And I have never known jocks to be any less successful. Personally I tend to have a hard time conversing and getting on with most males because I know nothing about sports or cars. I'm sure this isn't helping me become any more successful. My current boss fortunately pays attention to my actual work and how well I do. But damned if we have anything in common, and I'm sure in most circumstances that will be a hinderance.

To win you can't have doubts. You have to know that you are doing your best, you have to be doing your best. I work in an extremely competitive field where you have to win constantly in order to just keep your job. If you aren't the best and you don't know you are the best, you might as well quit. Winning as a living is the toughest thing you'll ever take on. There are high rewards, but there are high costs emotionally.

While I don't play sports I do play chess and billiards (perhaps a sport). I pay attention to my opponents ability and contrast it with my own. I figure out what their weak points are and what mine are and determine how to exploit that and prevent my opponent from exploiting it. Knowing how good you are compared to how good your opponent is is crucial in strategizing and planning and knowing your limitations is important in figuring out when and how to take the most profitable risks. You certainly play the game like you're going to win but you have to strategize realistically.
My best friend is a really good singer so he decided to try out for American Idol. He figured he had it in the bag. He walked in there like he owned the place and only got as far as a second audition. Why? Because he didn't strategize. Because he didn't consider the fact that most of these people he was up against have been singing, taking lessons, and in training since they were kids. He didn't think about what songs would be best for a competition against these people or anything else like that. Why? Because he believed whole heartedly that he was obviously going to win.

 

[BobG]

Hmmm I could come up with many examples (backed by performance data) of mediocre players remaining mediocre throughout their career, but people highly praised them because they had a mental edge to them. So how do you explain the countless examples of people considered to have a mental edge, but end up having a mediocre professional career?

Dang, that was my high school career as a runner. Even so, once in a while I ran a great race. And if I ran a great race once in a while, surely I should be able to hit that level all the time. I went into every race thinking I'd run one of my great races and, naturally, was more often disappointed since I was much more likely to run an average race for me and might even have a bad day.

Of course an athlete is going to say he expects to do well before hand! In fact, actually I never even admitted that the great races were particularly great. I was just frustrated that I couldn't run that way all the time.

And, actually, I wasn't exactly mediocre. I was one of the top 3 runners in the city, but then you start comparing yourself to the good runners in the state where I tended to come up just a wee bit short. Except for a few superstars at the professional level, every athlete winds up being mediocre! I think that's what a few posters are getting at when sports teaches a person a little about real life and that all people aren't "special" or just experiencing "delayed success".

 

[Evo]

At my high school the jocks were mostly dumb. But ofcourse they weren't any dumber than the average student either.
And I have never known jocks to be any less successful. Personally I tend to have a hard time conversing and getting on with most males because I know nothing about sports or cars. I'm sure this isn't helping me become any more successful. My current boss fortunately pays attention to my actual work and how well I do. But damned if we have anything in common, and I'm sure in most circumstances that will be a hinderance.


While I don't play sports I do play chess and billiards (perhaps a sport). I pay attention to my opponents ability and contrast it with my own. I figure out what their weak points are and what mine are and determine how to exploit that and prevent my opponent from exploiting it. Knowing how good you are compared to how good your opponent is is crucial in strategizing and planning and knowing your limitations is important in figuring out when and how to take the most profitable risks. You certainly play the game like you're going to win but you have to strategize realistically.

You said what I should have said. I have a bad habit of forgetting people can't read my mind.

My best friend is a really good singer so he decided to try out for American Idol. He figured he had it in the bag. He walked in there like he owned the place and only got as far as a second audition. Why? Because he didn't strategize. Because he didn't consider the fact that most of these people he was up against have been singing, taking lessons, and in training since they were kids. He didn't think about what songs would be best for a competition against these people or anything else like that. Why? Because he believed whole heartedly that he was obviously going to win.

Well, you actually have to be good, not delusional.

 

[Astronuc]

Well how about athletes who go on to obtain a Rhodes Sholarship?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodes_Scholarship

The criteria:

• literary and scholastic attainments;
• energy to use one's talents to the full, as exemplified by fondness for and success in sports;
• truth, courage, devotion to duty, sympathy for and protection of the weak, kindliness, unselfishness and fellowship;
• moral force of character and instincts to lead, and to take an interest in one's fellow beings.

Bill Clinton was a Rhodes scholar.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Bill Clinton was a Rhodes scholar.

When I was 18, my mother wished me the best of luck and kicked me out of the house. I always called that my Roads scholarship. Like "Hit the road, Jack."

 

[LightbulbSun]

Well, you actually have to be good, not delusional.

That's what I was trying to say silly.

 

[Math Is Hard]

When I was 18, my mother wished me the best of luck and kicked me out of the house. I always called that my Roads scholarship. Like "Hit the road, Jack."

My friend has something similar he calls the "the 1810 rule". He told his kids, "if you're not enrolled in school, the second you turn 18, you've got 10 minutes to get out the door."

 

[stickythighs]

When I was 18, my mother wished me the best of luck and kicked me out of the house. I always called that my Roads scholarship. Like "Hit the road, Jack."

Where did you live?

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Where did you live?

I worked as a kid and when I left home I had $800. This was in 1968 when that was a reasonable stake. I took off for Israel, Europe, California and a life of rootless adventure. I took a wide variety of odd jobs and kept myself together without a care in the world. But at the age of 21, I decided that I was working too hard and getting too little for it, so I went to school. In those days you could support yourself on part time jobs and pay tuition too. I don't know if that's the case anymore. My daughter is about to turn 17 and next year she's out too. I told her that I would pay her college expenses. I can afford it where my mother could not. But I think she'll be like me and take off.

 

[DrClapeyron]

Ford and Eisenhower were jocks.