Justifying steps in the Navier-Stokes calculation for simple circular pipe flow.

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around justifying steps in the Navier-Stokes equations for fluid flow in a circular pipe, specifically focusing on the assumptions made regarding velocity components and their implications in the context of a constant pressure gradient.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to justify the assumption that the radial and angular velocity components are zero, questioning the physical principles behind this decision.
  • Participants explore the implications of eliminating the angular dependence in the flow and the reasoning behind the absence of z-dependence in the velocity component u_z.
  • There is discussion about the potential for z-dependence in the velocity and the challenges posed by the non-linearity of the Navier-Stokes equations.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the assumptions made in the problem, with some providing insights into the physical reasoning behind the absence of certain velocity components. There is recognition of the need for additional equations to fully understand the flow characteristics, particularly regarding incompressibility.

Contextual Notes

The problem is framed within the context of incompressible fluid dynamics, and participants note that external forces are not considered in this scenario, which influences the flow characteristics being analyzed.

Peeter
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Homework Statement



In [1], problem 2.3 (ii), we are asked to show that for a pipe with circular cross section r = a and constant pressure gradient P = -dp/dz one has

u_z = \frac{P}{4 \mu}\left( a^2 - r^2 \right)
u_r = 0
u_\theta = 0

References:

[1] D.J. Acheson. <em>Elementary fluid dynamics</em>. Oxford University Press, USA, 1990.

Homework Equations



If one does assume that u_r = u_\theta = 0, then the Navier-stokes equations for an incompressible steady state flow takes the form

\begin{align}u_z \frac{\partial {u_z}}{\partial {z}} = \frac{P}{\rho} + \nu \left(\frac{1}{{r}} \frac{\partial {}}{\partial {r}}\left(r \frac{\partial {u_z}}{\partial {r}} \right) + \frac{\partial^2 {{u_z}}}{\partial {{\theta}}^2} + \frac{\partial^2 {{u_z}}}{\partial {{z}}^2}\right)\end{align}
\begin{align}0 = \frac{\partial {p}}{\partial {r}}\end{align}
\begin{align}0 = \frac{\partial {p}}{\partial {\theta}}\end{align}

The Attempt at a Solution



I can actually solve this problem completely, but have some trouble justifying some of the steps.

a) One of them is the assumption that u_r = u_\theta = 0, which I use as a starting point to express NS above. This intuitively makes sense, but are there other physical principles (other than intuition) that lead to this conclusion?

b) In NS above we can kill of the \partial_{\theta\theta} portion of the Laplacian, again by intuition. However, it's not too hard to imagine that you could have a flow where one could have an angular dependence in the flow (ie. imagine a really big pipe where fluid is being injected harder at the base of the pipe than at the top). Something like that would probably have a different pressure dependence. It isn't clear to me what sort of mathematical argument that one could use to show that for this constant pressure gradient scenerio one must have no \theta dependence in the velocity.

c) Finally, once we make assumption (b) so that \partial_\theta u_z = 0, NS takes the form (with w = u_z)

\begin{align}w \frac{\partial {w}}{\partial {z}} = \frac{P}{\rho} + \nu \left(\frac{1}{{r}} \frac{\partial {}}{\partial {r}}\left(r \frac{\partial {w}}{\partial {r}} \right) + \frac{\partial^2 {{w}}}{\partial {{z}}^2}\right).\end{align}

Attempting separation of variables with w = Z(z) R(r), this appears to be inseparable due to the non-linearity of the (\mathbf{u} \cdot \boldsymbol{\nabla}) \mathbf{u} term on the LHS. The fact that this is inseparable doesn't seem like it's a good justificaion for requiring that w = w(r) only and not w = w(r,z). I could imagine that it is still possible to find solutions of the form w = w(r,z). Is there some other argument that can be made to show that there is no z dependence in this remaining component of the fluid's velocity?
 
Last edited:
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I think all of your questions basically have the same answer. Just think of NS as a statement of Newton's second law and it should become obvious.
\mathbf{F}=m\mathbf{a}
becomes
-\nabla p=\rho\frac{D\boldsymbol{u}}{Dt} where the capital D's denote the advective derivative.

(I've written it with no externally applied forces because your question seems to imply that's the case. I don't think the question would make any sense without that assumption.)

Therefore, you should be able to see very clearly that since the pressure gradient (force) only has a z component, there shouldn't be any change in the flow (accelleration) in the radial or angular directions. The pressure field is a constant so the flow is steady--i.e., you don't have to worry about residual currents or changes in the flow as if the question were "at t=0 the pressure field is turned on" or anything like that.

Let me know if this makes sense to you.
 
Last edited:
I think that answers why we'd have no u_r, and u_\theta terms, but we have one more (the Laplacian) term in this version of F=ma:

Jolb said:
\rho \nabla^2 \boldsymbol{u} -\nabla p=\rho\frac{D\boldsymbol{u}}{Dt}

with that term it still seems to me that we can have functional dependence on z and \theta, even without components directed in the radial or angular directions.

Yes, in this problem, no external forces are being considered.
 
Okay, I see why there's no z-dependence in u_z. The statement of the problem should have included one more equation. This was Navier-Stokes for incompressible fluids, so must be augmented by

\nabla \cdot \mathbf{u} = \frac{1}{r}\partial_r( r u_r) + \frac{1}{r} \partial_\theta u_\theta + \partial_z u_z = 0

so if u_r = u_\theta = 0, we can have no z dependence in u_z.
 

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