News Kerry's speech calling for and suggesting an exit strategy from Iraq

[GENIERE]

It's what he's been saying all along...we need "specific and measurable goals." This is true enough, but the problem is he hasn't suggested any, nobody has!

Not true, the President defined the goals before Saddam was attacked. Primary reasons were:

Prevent Saddams use of WMD
Regime change
Democratization

The first proved premature, the latter are works in progress.
The timetable for a military pullout is "as long as it takes".


.

 

[Polly]

True, it's not pertinent to the point. I am not trying to derail the thread.
But, I believe phrasing is important - Look how many comments from overseas relate to ideas like "How can the American people have elected this man?"
In other words, the american people are being blamed for something that they may not have done.
There's no doubt that roughly half the population voted for Bush. But the entire population gets painted with the same brush, and had Kerry been sworn in, even though roughly half the populatioon had voted for Bush, the comments from overseas would be more along the lines of "Americans have come to their senses."
And it's ironic, because the two descriptions are very different, but the votes would have been just about the same.
Thankfully, most people are smart enough that if they look at the numbers they realize that half of us were very opposed to this person.
This is all pure opinion on my part, based on sweeping comments I have seen made by non-Americans since last November.
I am not saying Kerry won. I am saying exactly what I said in the previous post: I don't know that "the american people reelected bush" is an accurate comment.

But Bush was re-elected. And by whom if not the American people? He has been duly elected and formally authorised to represent the US of A and ALL its people (to wage war and "defend the Constitution" I am sure). The margin he won by is neither here nor there and like it or not, vis-a-vis the international community, all American people are bound by his action or inaction, feasance or misfeasance vicariously.

Not my war? Did the Shiites have the luxury to claim "Sadam not my president, therefore don't shock and awe me"?

 

[Skyhunter]

Not true, the President defined the goals before Saddam was attacked. Primary reasons were:
Prevent Saddams use of WMD
Regime change
Democratization
The first proved premature, the latter are works in progress.
The timetable for a military pullout is "as long as it takes".
.

The first proved to be a lie.

And they have done as good a job with the second two as they did with Katrina.

Maybe getting out is what it takes.

 

[pattylou]

But Bush was re-elected. And by whom if not the American people? He has been duly elected and formally authorised to represent the US of A and ALL its people (to wage war and "defend the Constitution" I am sure). The margin he won by is neither here nor there and like it or not, vis-a-vis the international community, all American people are bound by his action or inaction, feasance or misfeasance vicariously.
Not my war? Did the Shiites have the luxury to claim "Sadam not my president, therefore don't shock and awe me"?

If he got into the white house through fraud, then it is wrong to hold the American people responsible.

But you have illustrated my point most nicely. Thank you.

 

[The Smoking Man]

The first proved to be a lie.
And they have done as good a job with the second two as they did with Katrina.
Maybe getting out is what it takes.

Wasn't 'leaving Vietnam' given the same list of excuses for so many years before they actually pulled out?

If America is there for 'as long as it takes', Nam lasted for about a decade.


Are we going to be viewing pictures of the Halliburton Gang getting on a Huey from the top of their corporate headquarters moments before their new Ayatola declares an Islamic republic in about 7 years?

Really, with the debt mounting as it is and the spiral downwards of enlistees, just how long before the government destroys the economy, armed forces ... and ... well, I was going to say credibility but I think they lost that a couple of years ago.

 

[Curious3141]

If he got into the white house through fraud, then it is wrong to hold the American people responsible.

Not trying to flame you (I'm actually with you on this), but if he *did* get elected and re-elected through fraud, then impeach him. If your legal bloodhounds can take out a popular sitting President because he couldn't keep it in his pants, then sure as heck you should be able to take out the present incumbent for lying, fabricating evidence and starting a war of aggression that continues to kill thousands.

You are a democracy. A real one. Why aren't you taking Bush down or at least attempting to find out the truth of these matters ? Why don't the public clamour for a full public enquiry on the alleged voter fraud, on the justifications for the Iraq war and the current business of America in that region ?

If enough voices are raised, if enough people throng the streets, then the administration has no choice but to listen to you. But I don't see this happening, therefore, surely the American people must bear some blame for inaction.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Not trying to flame you (I'm actually with you on this), but if he *did* get elected and re-elected through fraud, then impeach him. If your legal bloodhounds can take out a popular sitting President because he couldn't keep it in his pants, then sure as heck you should be able to take out the present incumbent for lying, fabricating evidence and starting a war of aggression that continues to kill thousands.
You are a democracy. A real one. Why aren't you taking Bush down or at least attempting to find out the truth of these matters ? Why don't the public clamour for a full public enquiry on the alleged voter fraud, on the justifications for the Iraq war and the current business of America in that region ?
If enough voices are raised, if enough people throng the streets, then the administration has no choice but to listen to you. But I don't see this happening, therefore, surely the American people must bear some blame for inaction.

There are a couple of things going here that you may not be aware of ... Impeachment must happen as a result of the house acting.

Clinton, in the latter part of his 'rule' didn't have the support of the house.

Bush holds a majority in the house.

So, unless there is something revealed that is so henous that even the Republicans would shun him, (and even The Downing Street Memo wasn't enough) you've got about as much chance of making a snowman in hell.

Remember, the Clinto thing started over a controversy over Whitewater and had nothing to do with his sexual proclivities. Star failed to find anything on the one thing and, because he had started, began to expand the scope of the investigation.

Unchecked, a fishing expedition like this can bring down the Pope.

I think the Republicans fear this style of investigation because if it ever came to pass, they KNOW there are a laundry list of skeletons that will ensure the Republicans will nerver regain power (Like the Conservatives in the UK)

 

[Curious3141]

There are a couple of things going here that you may not be aware of ... Impeachment must happen as a result of the house acting.
Clinton, in the latter part of his 'rule' didn't have the support of the house.
Bush holds a majority in the house.
So, unless there is something revealed that is so henous that even the Republicans would shun him, (and even The Downing Street Memo wasn't enough) you've got about as much chance of making a snowman in hell.
Remember, the Clinto thing started over a controversy over Whitewater and had nothing to do with his sexual proclivities. Star failed to find anything on the one thing and, because he had started, began to expand the scope of the investigation.
Unchecked, a fishing expedition like this can bring down the Pope.
I think the Republicans fear this style of investigation because if it ever came to pass, they KNOW there are a laundry list of skeletons that will ensure the Republicans will nerver regain power (Like the Conservatives in the UK)

What a sad state of affairs, and what hypocrites the Repubs are. Thanks for the clarification, BTW. :)

 

[pattylou]

You are a democracy. A real one. Why aren't you taking Bush down or at least attempting to find out the truth of these matters ? Why don't the public clamour for a full public enquiry on the alleged voter fraud, on the justifications for the Iraq war and the current business of America in that region ?

Do you follow the vote fraud updates I regularly post?

The government accountability office released a report a week ago. It helps to move the "vote fraud" topic from crackpot theory land to a more legitimate place.

I think it may give lawyers recourse to demand memory cards for audit, for example. And if they find some that have thrown results, I am certain there will be an impeachment.

 

[Skyhunter]

Do you follow the vote fraud updates I regularly post?
The government accountability office released a report a week ago. It helps to move the "vote fraud" topic from crackpot theory land to a more legitimate place.
I think it may give lawyers recourse to demand memory cards for audit, for example. And if they find some that have thrown results, I am certain there will be an impeachment.

That would only prove fraud, not culpability. And by last count Republicans still have the House.

 

[pattylou]

I doubt all republicans will stand by their man if it is shown that memory cards were swapped in key states.

Voinovich comes to mind.

It's true that culpability must be demonstrated. Still, standing by Bush in the face of a hypothetical demonstration of (deliberate, premeditated) election fraud, would be *almost* tantamount to condoning the behavior. I would be surprised if all republicans make that choice.

 

[SOS2008]

The first proved to be a lie.
And they have done as good a job with the second two as they did with Katrina.
Maybe getting out is what it takes.

Agreed. The first was a lie. The second is illegal. The third has been botched.

I've said it before -- No matter what Kerry's performance may have been in other matters (domestic), we would have gained international/UN help with Iraq. Not only because of the changing of the guard, but also because of Kerry's background of living in Germany, retaining a residence in France, speaking French fluently, etc. Our troops would be drawing down at this moment, and probably completely out after the December election.

 

[Skyhunter]

Agreed. The first was a lie. The second is illegal. The third has been botched.
I've said it before -- No matter what Kerry's performance may have been in other matters (domestic), we would have gained international/UN help with Iraq. Not only because of the changing of the guard, but also because of Kerry's background of living in Germany, retaining a residence in France, speaking French fluently, etc. Our troops would be drawing down at this moment, and probably completely out after the December election.

Exactly the reasons I voted for Kerry.

At least I think I did?

Without a paper trail there is no way to know for sure.