Is it Time to Bring Our Troops Home from Iraq?

[Skyhunter]

Bush's approval rating has been dropping steadily for months now. At 34% approval, according to the latest http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB113216347138199155-5Z1Ri_om8ITUbV_jD2bx6maguMY_20061116.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top poll, even once strong supporters are unhappy with his performance. His reaction has been to attack. Divide Americans more.
It is just my opinion but this is political suicide. When the majority is with you and you engage in us -vs- them/with or or against me politics, you deepen the political divides, but you still maintain power. Doing so when you are in the minority has the same result, except you lose power.
When the majority of people disagree with you in a democracy, and you call them irresponsible and reprehensible, they tend to disagree with you even stronger.
I believe the impetus behind this fall is disastrous policy toward the ME.
The Iraq war and the events leading up to it are now coming to light. And it is becoming harder and harder to deny the obvious.
Here is the http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/pa12_murtha/pr051117iraq.html given by Congressman John Murtha.

(Washington D.C.)- The war in Iraq is not going as advertised. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion. The American public is way ahead of us. The United States and coalition troops have done all they can in Iraq, but it is time for a change in direction. Our military is suffering. The future of our country is at risk. We can not continue on the present course. It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in the best interest of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf Region.

This war needs to be personalized. As I said before I have visited with the severely wounded of this war. They are suffering.

This is why I started the first WP thread. I looked at all the pictures of the soldiers who died and realized that the war was not personal.
I think that it is becoming more and more personal

Because we in Congress are charged with sending our sons and daughters into battle, it is our responsibility, our OBLIGATION to speak out for them. That’s why I am speaking out.
Our military has done everything that has been asked of them, the U.S. can not accomplish anything further in Iraq militarily. IT IS TIME TO BRING THEM HOME.

[edit]oops, pasted the wrong url [/edit]

 

[pattylou]

THat's very clever of Murtha to compliment the AMerican people the way he does.

Bush could learn about diplomacy from him.

Rasmussen reports shows approval hovering around 43%, nowhere near the 34% your poll found. On the other hand, they (RR) say the democrats, overall, have a seven point margin above republicans at the moment. I don't know the details of that number. It sounds as though the democrats may gain some seats next year, however.

 

[ComputerGeek]

When the republican leadership cannot win a vote in the house, you know you have problems...

though, those problems have been mounting for a while...

cheating on voice votes by calling victory for the republican leadership's position when it was clear the dissenters of that position won the voice vote (I saw it on CSPAN back a few months ago.. it was disgusting).

Holding open a vote for 2 hours so Tom DeLay can go around threatening republicans to change their votes.

this is a long time coming and the republicans are going to get a sore lesson.

 

[pattylou]

Bush's approval rating has been dropping steadily for months now. At 34% approval, according to the latest NBC/WSJ poll,

Can you check your link? It took me to a 2004 article.

 

[ComputerGeek]

THat's very clever of Murtha to compliment the AMerican people the way he does.
Bush could learn about diplomacy from him.
Rasmussen reports shows approval hovering around 43%, nowhere near the 34% your poll found. On the other hand, they (RR) say the democrats, overall, have a seven point margin above republicans at the moment. I don't know the details of that number. It sounds as though the democrats may gain some seats next year, however.

34% is from the question about the direction of the country.. not job approval.

he was mistaken.

what is more interesting, 41% strongly disapprove of bush... that is a lot in such a strong position, and 19% only somewhat approve... those folks can change their minds easily. Bush might be another Truman, approval wise.

 

[Astronuc]

Released: November 03, 2005
Rollercoaster! Bush Approval Rating Drops Again

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1036

One has to search Zobgy.com for more recent poll results.

Bush could learn about diplomacy from him.

Bush needs to learn about democracy. He and his administration are NOT representing the people.

 

[Skyhunter]

Can you check your link? It took me to a 2004 article.

Thank you for the lookout. I corrected the link.

 

[pattylou]

Bush needs to learn about democracy. He and his administration are NOT representing the people.

My husband occasionally argues (devil's advocate) that the point of democracy is not to represent the people but to lead the people and protect their interests.

The argument goes something like this: We vote in people that we think will do the right thing for the country. If they were to bend to every whim that the population has, they may "represent the people" but they wouldn't be being true to what they ran on - and therefore why they were elected. We el;ect them based on what they say they will do, and so... in this democracy... there's something wrong if they don't then do it. Bush ran on (in part() "staying in Iraq til the job was done. "

If he doesn't do that, he will be breaking campaign promises, and there will be no reason to even make campaign promises, etc etc etc... I trust you see the argument coming from this POV.

Anyway, whether he learns about democracy or not, he could still learn about diplomacy. He's an embarassment.

 

[Astronuc]

I know 'represents' is rather vague and broad.

Perhaps a political leader should represent the 'interests of the people' - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Acually the political leaders are 'stewards' of the society/nation/community.

Bush isn't. :grumpy:

 

[pattylou]

Thank you for the lookout. I corrected the link.

Still doesn't work for me. I go here when I click the link:

Approval
for Bush, doubts
on key issues
NBC/WSJ poll shows only slight changes since days before election

• NBC poll
Dec. 16: A new NBC/WSJ poll indicates that the country is still very much divided on the job President Bush is doing. NBC's Campbell Brown reports.
Today show

By Mark Murray
Political correspondent
NBC News
Updated: 9:24 a.m. ET Dec. 16, 2004

 

[Skyhunter]

Bush needs to learn about democracy.

Is that what he is doing in Iraq?

Learning about democracy.

Anyway, whether he learns about democracy or not, he could still learn about diplomacy. He's an embarassment.

This is IMO the major reason that Iraq is such a disaster. Because of his diplomatic failure, we are alone, viewed as occupiers, with targets painted on our soldiers.

Why he cannot involve the world community is beyond me. The situation IMO will continue to deteriorate until we have a change in policy and leadership.

 

[Skyhunter]

Still doesn't work for me. I go here when I click the link:

Hmm...worked for me.

Try this.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB113216347138199155-5Z1Ri_om8ITUbV_jD2bx6maguMY_20061116.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top