Kinematics problem -- Calculating acceleration from the trajectory

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a kinematics problem involving the calculation of acceleration components from a trajectory represented by a graph of arc length versus time. Participants are tasked with analyzing velocity and acceleration at specific time points, t1 and t2, while considering the implications of negative values on the graph.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the meaning of negative values in the trajectory graph and question how to interpret normal and tangential components of acceleration in one-dimensional motion. There are attempts to clarify the relationship between the slope of the graph and the speed of the mobile.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and corrections to each other's understanding of the problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding the interpretation of graph slopes and the implications for velocity and acceleration, though multiple interpretations of the trajectory and time points are still being explored.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the graphical representations and the relationship between position, velocity, and acceleration. Participants are also addressing the potential for the mobile to traverse the same trajectory in different directions, which complicates the analysis.

Victoria_235
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Homework Statement


For each of the following cases, represent on the trajectory, the velocity and tangential and normal components of the acceleration at times t1 and t2 of a mobile that moves according to the graph of s (arc) versus t (time) on the left. The point O on the trajectory marks the origin
of arcs and the arrow indicates the direction of the rising arc. Indicate also when it is greater
the speed of the mobile, in t1 or t2.

Homework Equations


v= dS/dt

The Attempt at a Solution


I have tried it. But I don't understand what means when the graphic is drawn in the negative area.
I think there is many mistakes in my attempt.
 

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It is a bit difficult to understand the problem statement (at least for me). Is there a figure of the original trajectory plots S(t)? And if you only have motion in one dimension S(t), how can you have normal and tangential components to acceleration? Normal and tangential to what?
 
In the figure on the right is represented the trajectory, and what the problem asks is to draw on it the components of the acceleration and the direction of the velocity. Also say if the speed is greater in t1 or in t2.

Yes, I upload the original plot.
Thank you in advance.

Thank you.
graph1.png
 

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Hey Victoria!

Let's start with the speed on the leftmost graphs. Are you aware that the speed is the slope of the arc length graph? That is, a steep slope up or down is high speed, while a horizontal slope is zero speed.
Can we tell in each of the graphs where the slope steeper? In t1 or t2?
 
Victoria_235 said:
But I don't understand what means when the graphic is drawn in the negative area.
Each of the trajectory charts has an origin and a direction marked. When the (s,t) graph goes negative it means it is at a point in the trajectory before the origin.
I see that in some cases it will traverse the same part of the trajectory more than once, so the "direction of the velocity" will be both ways there.
 
Thank you!
I think I understand it. When the graph (S, t) is in the negative part, it is moving against the reference system, I understand that in the opposite direction to that indicated by the arrow in the drawing on the right.
 
Victoria_235 said:
When the graph (S, t) is in the negative part, it is moving against the reference system, I understand that in the opposite direction to that indicated by the arrow in the drawing on the right.
That is not quite right - maybe it's not what you meant.
s is a position, not a speed. When it is in the negative, the position on the curve is before the origin. That is, to get there from the origin you would have to move against the arrow. But the particle may be moving either with the arrow or against it. That corresponds to the slope of the graph. If the slope is positive the particle is moving with the arrow.
 
Ok, I think I have something...
It is ok?
Here is my attempt.

Thank you very much for your help :)
 

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Victoria_235 said:
Ok, I think I have something...
It is ok?
Here is my attempt.

Thank you very much for your help :)
I think you are having trouble separating conceptually the shape of the graph and the shape of the trajectory.

Look at t1 in A. You have written (I think) ds/dt > 0. That would mean s is increasing, but at t1 it is as far from O as it ever gets, so it cannot be increasing. What is the slope of the graph at t1?
 
  • #10
In A, I thought speed is increasing from origin to t1, were it stops. From 0 to t1, I guess is going from O, in the trayectory to some point at t2.
In fact, I think I don't understand it... because how it is in my mind, in t2 should be again in O (in the trayectory draw).
 
  • #11
Victoria_235 said:
In A, I thought speed is increasing from origin to t
No, not the speed, the position.
In graph A, it starts at some point s0 at time 0. This is where the graph crosses the vertical axis. s0 is the height at which it crosses. In the trajectory, that means it is distance s0 from O in the direction shown by the arrow.
We see from the graph that at time 0 the slope is positive, i.e. s is increasing. So it is moving away from O.
The slope decreases gradually, so it is moving more slowly.
At t1 the slope is zero. The speed is the slope, always, so just for an instant it has stopped moving. It is now as far from O as it will get.

The question asks for the acceleration at this point. Acceleration is the rate of change of velocity. Velocity and acceleration are both vectors, so we have to worry about the directions.
What can you say about the direction of the velocity just before t1?
What about just after t1?
 
  • #12
Ok. I have tried again.
As you said, at first the particle should be moving with the arrow, because of the positive slope, then should reach some point at t1, which is the maximum distance to O. After t1, is moving against the arrow, until t1, which is in the origin O (where the arrow begins).

From t1 to t2 velocity is negative.
 

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  • #13
Let's just get the positions at t0 and t1 right first.
I wrote that at t0 it is
haruspex said:
distance s0 from O in the direction shown by the arrow
That is, start at O, move distance s0 along the trajectory in the direction shown by the arrow to find where it is at t0. You seem to have moved the other way.
Likewise, s1 is further along in the same direction.
 
  • #14
Good evening,
Here is my last attempt.
Thank you very much for your help .
 

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  • #15
Victoria_235 said:
Good evening,
Here is my last attempt.
Thank you very much for your help .
This is confusing. I just noticed that the diagrams of the question that you posted in #8 and #12 do not match any in post #3. According to #8 and #12, t1 is at the top of the curve in the graph, but in #3 and #14 (for the sinusoidal graph) they are after the peak.

In your latest attempt, the solution for t1 looks correct! You have velocity and tangential acceleration heading towards O and a normal acceleration towards the inside of the curve.
The t2 answer is wrong, though. What is ds/dt there? What does that tell you about the normal (i.e. radial) acceleration?

In the second case, the inverted parabola graph, you have t2 nailed but the same errors for t1 as for t2 in the above.

In the third case, the straight line graph, you have the location and velocity right for t1. Since it is a straight line graph for s, what can you say about tangential acceleration?
 

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