Lagrangian for the electromagnetic field coupled to a scalar field

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the equations of motion for a complex scalar field coupled to an electromagnetic field using the Lagrangian formalism. The original poster expresses uncertainty about the correct approach to take, particularly regarding the independence of the complex field and its conjugate.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster considers using the Euler-Lagrange equations but questions the independence of the fields involved. They explore the principle of least action as an alternative approach.
  • Some participants suggest that the real and imaginary parts of the complex field can be treated as independent degrees of freedom, which may clarify the application of the action principle.
  • There is a discussion about the correct formulation of the Lagrangian and the resulting equations of motion, with participants questioning the validity of certain steps taken in the derivation.
  • Participants raise concerns about the complexity of the equations of motion and whether they can be simplified.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights and hints regarding the derivation process. Some guidance has been offered on taking variations of the action instead of directly applying the Euler-Lagrange equations. There is recognition of potential errors in the calculations related to the electromagnetic field equations, prompting further examination.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of coupling a complex scalar field with an electromagnetic field, with specific attention to the implications of treating complex fields in the context of classical field theory. The original poster is also adhering to homework constraints that may limit the exploration of certain methods.

Frostman
Messages
114
Reaction score
17
Homework Statement
Consider the following Lagrangian density for the electromagnetic field ##A_\mu## coupled to a scalar field ##\phi## (complex)
$$L=-\frac14F_{\mu\nu}F^{\mu\nu}+(D_\mu\phi)^*D^\mu\phi$$
Where ##D_\mu = \partial_\mu-iqA_\mu## and ## F_{\mu\nu}=\partial_\mu A_\nu-\partial_\nu A_\mu##
1. Write the equations of motion for the two fields.
2. Applying the Noether theorem following the invariance for phase transformation of the field ##\phi##, write the conserved current.
3. Verify explicitly that the current written in this way is preserved.
Relevant Equations
Euler-Lagrange equations
Noether theorem
It is the first time that I am faced with a complex field, I would not want to be wrong about how to solve this type of problem.
Usually to solve the equations of motion I apply the Euler Lagrange equations.
$$\partial_\mu\frac{\partial L}{\partial \phi/_\mu}-\frac{\partial L}{\partial \phi}=0$$
But since ##\phi## and ##\phi^*## are not independent of each other I will have to follow another path and the only one that comes to mind is the principle of least action. Should I use this approach?

What I get next will be two equations of motion (##\phi## and ##\phi^*##) plus that of the electromagnetic field (##A_\mu##): so I will have 3 EOM not 2. Or the EOM for ##\phi## and ##\phi^*## can be consider as one?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Physics news on Phys.org
You can vary ##\phi## and ##\phi^*## independently from each other, because what counts as independent field-degrees of freedom are real and imaginary parts, i.e., ##\mathrm{Re} \phi## and ##\mathrm{Im} \phi## are to be varied as independent real field-degrees of freedom in the action principle, but that is equivalent to considering ##\phi## and its conjugate complex, ##\phi^*##, as independent field-degrees of freedom.
 
vanhees71 said:
You can vary ##\phi## and ##\phi^*## independently from each other, because what counts as independent field-degrees of freedom are real and imaginary parts, i.e., ##\mathrm{Re} \phi## and ##\mathrm{Im} \phi## are to be varied as independent real field-degrees of freedom in the action principle, but that is equivalent to considering ##\phi## and its conjugate complex, ##\phi^*##, as independent field-degrees of freedom.
Okay, so I can re-write my lagrangian as:
$$ L = -\frac14F_{\mu\nu}F^{\mu\nu}+\big(\partial_\mu\phi^*+iqA_\mu\phi^*\big)\big(\partial^\mu\phi-iqA^\mu\phi\big)$$

##\frac{\partial L}{\partial A_\alpha}=\frac{\partial}{\partial A_\alpha}\big(\partial_\mu\phi^*+iqA_\mu\phi^*\big)\big(\partial^\mu\phi-iqg^{\mu\nu}A_\nu\phi\big)=iq\delta_{\alpha\mu}\phi^*\big(\partial^\mu\phi-iqg^{\mu\nu}A_\nu\phi\big)-iqg^{\mu\nu}\delta_{\alpha\nu}\phi\big(\partial_\mu\phi^*+iqA_\mu\phi^*\big)##

##\frac{\partial L}{\partial A_\alpha}=iq\phi^*\partial^\alpha\phi+q^2A^\alpha\phi^2-iq\phi\partial^\alpha\phi^*+q^2A^\alpha\phi^2=2q^2A^\alpha\phi^2##

Since ##\phi## is a scalar and ##\partial^\alpha## a four-vector, I can afford to take the last step, right? Or is it wrong?

##\frac{\partial F}{\partial A_\alpha/_\beta}=-\frac14\frac{\partial }{\partial A_\alpha/_\beta}\big(F_{\mu\nu}F^{\mu\nu}\big)=-\frac14\big(\frac{\partial F_{\mu\nu}}{\partial A_\alpha/_\beta}F^{\mu\nu}+\frac{\partial F^{\mu\nu}}{\partial A_\alpha/_\beta}F_{\mu\nu}\big)=-\frac14\big(2F^{\mu\nu}\frac{\partial F_{\mu\nu}}{\partial A_\alpha/_\beta}\big)=\dots=-F^{\beta\alpha}##

So, we'll have:

##F^{\beta\alpha}/_\beta=-2q^2\phi^2A^\alpha##

##J^{\alpha}=-2q^2\phi^2A^\alpha##

This is the equation of motion for the electromagnetic field ##A^{\alpha}##

While for ##\phi## and ##\phi^*##:

##\frac{\partial L}{\partial \phi}=\frac{\partial }{\partial \phi}\big[\big(\partial_\mu\phi^*+iqA_\mu\phi^*\big)\big(\partial^\mu\phi-iqA^\mu\phi\big)\big]=-iqA^\mu\big(\partial_\mu\phi^*+iqA_\mu\phi^*\big)=-iqA^\mu\phi^*/_\mu+q^2A^2\phi^*##

##\frac{\partial L}{\partial \phi^*}=\frac{\partial }{\partial \phi*}\big[\big(\partial_\mu\phi^*+iqA_\mu\phi^*\big)\big(\partial^\mu\phi-iqA^\mu\phi\big)\big]=iqA_\mu\big(\partial^\mu\phi-iqA^\mu\phi\big)=iqA_\mu\phi/^\mu+q^2A^2\phi##

##\frac{\partial L}{\partial \phi/_\alpha}=\frac{\partial }{\partial \phi/_\alpha}\big[\big(\partial_\mu\phi^*+iqA_\mu\phi^*\big)\big(\partial^\mu\phi-iqA^\mu\phi\big)\big]=\frac{\partial }{\partial \phi/_\alpha}\big[\big(\partial_\mu\phi^*+iqA_\mu\phi^*\big)\big(g^{\mu\nu}\partial_\nu\phi-iqA^\mu\phi\big)\big]=g^{\mu\nu}\delta_{\alpha\nu}\big(\partial_\mu\phi^*+iqA_\mu\phi^*\big)=\phi^*/^\alpha+iqA^\alpha\phi^*##

##\frac{\partial L}{\partial \phi^*/_\alpha}=\frac{\partial }{\partial \phi^*/_\alpha}\big[\big(\partial_\mu\phi^*+iqA_\mu\phi^*\big)\big(\partial^\mu\phi-iqA^\mu\phi\big)\big]=\frac{\partial }{\partial \phi/^*_\alpha}\big[\big(\partial_\mu\phi^*+iqA_\mu\phi^*\big)\big(\partial^\mu\phi-iqA^\mu\phi\big)\big]=\delta_{\alpha\mu}\big(\partial^\mu\phi-iqA^\mu\phi\big)=\phi/^\alpha-iqA^\alpha\phi##

And I get:

##\phi^*/^\alpha_\alpha+iqA^\alpha/_\alpha\phi^*+iqA^\alpha\phi^*/_\alpha=-iqA^\alpha\phi^*/_\alpha+q^2A^2\phi^*##

##\phi/^\alpha_\alpha-iqA^\alpha/_\alpha\phi-iqA^\alpha\phi/_\alpha=iqA_\alpha\phi/^\alpha+q^2A^2\phi##

But equations of motion CANNOT be complex. So I made some mistakes, but I can't find it.
In any case, is it right the process that I use to get them?
 
Why can't they be complex. After all ##\phi## is a complex field, and you also get out that one of the KG equations is the complex conjugated of the other. So this looks pretty good. On the other hand the equation for the em. field is not right. Carfully check at least your calculation of ##\partial L/\partial A_{\alpha}##.

Hint: It's much easier to take the variation of the action than to use the Euler-Lagrange equations. E.g., the variation of ##\phi^*## gives
$$\delta L=(\partial_{\mu} \delta \phi^* + \mathrm{i} q A_{\mu} \delta \phi^*)(\partial^{\mu} \phi-\mathrm{i} q A^{\mu} \phi).$$
Integrating this you get the variation of the action. Doing an integration by parts for the first term in the left bracket this gives
$$\delta S=\int_{\mathbb{R}^4} \mathrm{d}^4 x \delta \phi^* (\mathrm{i} q A_{\mu}-\partial_{\mu}) (\partial^{\mu} \phi-\mathrm{i} q A^{\mu} \phi).$$
Since this has to vanish for arbitrary ##\delta \phi^*## you get the EoM
$$-\Box \phi+\mathrm{i} q \partial_{\mu} (A^{\mu} \phi)+\mathrm{i} q A_{\mu} \partial^{\mu} \phi +A_{\mu} A^{\mu} \phi=0.$$
This is the same as your result for the EoM of ##\phi##.

As I said, check your Maxwell equations for ##A^{\mu}## again!
 
vanhees71 said:
Why can't they be complex. After all ##\phi## is a complex field, and you also get out that one of the KG equations is the complex conjugated of the other. So this looks pretty good. On the other hand the equation for the em. field is not right. Carfully check at least your calculation of ##\partial L/\partial A_{\alpha}##.

I obtain the same result. I suppose that:

##iq\phi^*\partial^\alpha\phi+-iq\phi\partial^\alpha\phi^*##

Can't be simplified as 0

Or what I wrote as:

##2q^2A^{\alpha}\phi^2##

Should be written as:

##2q^2A^{\alpha}|\phi|^2##

If it's something else can you give me a hint?

vanhees71 said:
Hint: It's much easier to take the variation of the action than to use the Euler-Lagrange equations. E.g., the variation of ##\phi^*## gives
$$\delta L=(\partial_{\mu} \delta \phi^* + \mathrm{i} q A_{\mu} \delta \phi^*)(\partial^{\mu} \phi-\mathrm{i} q A^{\mu} \phi).$$
Integrating this you get the variation of the action. Doing an integration by parts for the first term in the left bracket this gives
$$\delta S=\int_{\mathbb{R}^4} \mathrm{d}^4 x \delta \phi^* (\mathrm{i} q A_{\mu}-\partial_{\mu}) (\partial^{\mu} \phi-\mathrm{i} q A^{\mu} \phi).$$
Since this has to vanish for arbitrary ##\delta \phi^*## you get the EoM
$$-\Box \phi+\mathrm{i} q \partial_{\mu} (A^{\mu} \phi)+\mathrm{i} q A_{\mu} \partial^{\mu} \phi +A_{\mu} A^{\mu} \phi=0.$$
This is the same as your result for the EoM of ##\phi##.

As I said, check your Maxwell equations for ##A^{\mu}## again!

Oh I see, it's much easier and less calculations.
 
I think, you get in the right direction!
 
vanhees71 said:
I think, you get in the right direction!
I go for

##iq\phi^*\partial^\alpha\phi-iq\phi\partial^\alpha\phi^*##

From the moment that ##\phi## and ##\phi^*## have imaginary part different (sign).

So the solution became

##J^{\alpha}=-iq\phi^*\partial^\alpha\phi+iq\phi\partial^\alpha\phi^*-2q^2\phi^2A^\alpha##
 
...and also ##\phi^* \phi=|\phi|^2## instead of ##\phi^2## in the last term.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Frostman

Similar threads

Replies
10
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
5K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K