I Lagrangian mechanics - generalised coordinates question

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on the application of Lagrangian mechanics to a rigid body, specifically a pencil, which involves five generalized coordinates: three for linear motion (x, y, z) and two for rotational motion (θ, φ). The user questions the necessity of expressing linear coordinates as functions of the angular coordinates to derive the correct equations of motion (EOM) for θ and φ. It is clarified that for a rigid body, both the linear kinetic energy of the center of mass and the rotational kinetic energy must be considered. The relationship between the coordinates is essential for accurately calculating the Lagrangian and subsequently the EOM. Understanding these relationships ensures the correct application of Lagrangian mechanics to complex systems.
curiousPep
Messages
15
Reaction score
1
I think I undeerstand Lagrangian mechanics but I have a question that will help to clarify some concepts.
Imagine I throw a pencil. For that I have 5 generalised coordinates (x,y,z and 2 rotational).
When I express Kinetic Energy (T) as:
$$T = 1/2m\dot{x^{2}}+1/2m\dot{y^{2}}+1/2m\dot{z^{2}} + I\dot{\theta^{2}} + I\dot{\phi^{2}}$$
and potential energy (V)
$$V=mgz$$
Then I use Lagrangian to find the EOM.
For x,y,z is fine but for $$\theta$$ and $$\phi$$ I have a question. I see how x,y,z can be a expressed as functions of $$\theta\;and\;\phi$$, but why should I do this. I mean in cases that something is less obvious, then I will get the wrong EOM.
Thank you, and I hope the latex code works.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You need double dollars or double hashes to delimit Latex here.

Im not sure I understand your question. A point particle has linear KE. A extended rigid body has linear KE of the CoM plus rotational KE of the body about the CoM. You have to know to consider both.
 
PeroK said:
You need double dollars or double hashes to delimit Latex here.

Im not sure I understand your question. A point particle has linear KE. A extended rigid body has linear KE of the CoM plus rotational KE of the body about the CoM. You have to know to consider both.
I will try to explain it better, cause I see it's a bit confusing.
When I have a rigid body like a pencil of length 2L, the generalized coordinates defined are x,y,z (COM relative to (0,0)) and
$$\theta, \phi$$ (Euler's angles).
However, x,y,z can be expressed as functions of $$\theta,\phi$$.
For example: $$x = X + Lsin\theta cos\phi$$. My question is that, why do I need to do this in oder to find the right EOM for $$\theta\;and\;\phi$$?
Or is this not needed?I mean in a more complex case the relationship mu not be that obvious, so I won't know if my EOM are right or not.
 
If ##(X, Y, Z)## are the coordinates of the CoM, then that's what you need for ##T##. The rotational motion involves the moment of inertia ##I##, which encapsulates the position of every point mass in the body in terms of calculating rotational KE.

Your ##x## above seems to be just the position of one end of the pencil!
 
The right degrees of freedom are the center-of-mass position components ##\vec{X}## and the three Euler angles for the rotation of the rigid body around this center of mass. So what you look for is the Lagrangian for the (symmetric) spinning top in terms of Euler angles. See, e.g.,

https://hepweb.ucsd.edu/ph110b/110b_notes/node36.html

To simplify the equations somewhat, you may neglect the rotation around the axis of the pencil, because the corresponding moment of inertia is small compared to that around any axis perpendicular to it, i.e., you may set ##I^{(3)}=0##.
 
The rope is tied into the person (the load of 200 pounds) and the rope goes up from the person to a fixed pulley and back down to his hands. He hauls the rope to suspend himself in the air. What is the mechanical advantage of the system? The person will indeed only have to lift half of his body weight (roughly 100 pounds) because he now lessened the load by that same amount. This APPEARS to be a 2:1 because he can hold himself with half the force, but my question is: is that mechanical...
Let there be a person in a not yet optimally designed sled at h meters in height. Let this sled free fall but user can steer by tilting their body weight in the sled or by optimal sled shape design point it in some horizontal direction where it is wanted to go - in any horizontal direction but once picked fixed. How to calculate horizontal distance d achievable as function of height h. Thus what is f(h) = d. Put another way, imagine a helicopter rises to a height h, but then shuts off all...
Some physics textbook writer told me that Newton's first law applies only on bodies that feel no interactions at all. He said that if a body is on rest or moves in constant velocity, there is no external force acting on it. But I have heard another form of the law that says the net force acting on a body must be zero. This means there is interactions involved after all. So which one is correct?

Similar threads

Back
Top