Landau vol.1 Mechanics: Expansion of L' and Dependence on Velocity

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the expansion of the Lagrangian in the context of mechanics, specifically focusing on the implications of velocity dependence and the mathematical techniques used in Landau's text. Participants explore the power series expansion of the Lagrangian and its relation to Noether's theorem, while also addressing foundational concepts in Newtonian mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the relationship between two inertial frames and the expansion of the Lagrangian using a power series in terms of an infinitesimal velocity difference, ##\epsilon##.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the mathematical technique of expanding the Lagrangian and seeks clarification on its implications.
  • A later reply identifies the expansion as a Taylor series to first order in ##\epsilon## and suggests that knowledge of Noether's theorem is necessary for understanding the subsequent analysis.
  • One participant emphasizes the significance of understanding the goals behind the calculations presented in the text.
  • Another participant elaborates on the derivation of the Lagrangian from fundamental principles of Newtonian mechanics, discussing invariance under the Galilei group and the implications for the form of the Lagrangian.
  • Discussion includes the relationship between the Lagrangian and symmetries, as well as the conditions under which the Lagrangian is invariant under Galilei boosts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the mathematical techniques and concepts discussed, with some confusion evident about the implications of the Lagrangian expansion and Noether's theorem. No consensus is reached on the clarity of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note limitations in their understanding of the mathematical steps involved, particularly regarding the expansion of the Lagrangian and its dependence on velocity. The discussion reflects a range of familiarity with the material, with some participants still in the early stages of their study.

zhuang382
Messages
9
Reaction score
2
Let ##K## and ##K'## be two inertial frame, If K is moving with infinitesimal velocity relative to ##K'## , then ##v' = v + \epsilon##.
Note that ##L(v^2) - L(v'^2)## is only a total derivative of a function of coordinate and time. (I understand this part)
Because ##L' = L(v'^2) = L(v^2 + 2v\cdot\epsilon + \epsilon^2)##, then we use power series of ##\epsilon## to expand the equation and neglect the second order term:
$$L(v'^2) = L(v^2) + 2\frac {\partial f} {\partial v^2}v\cdot\epsilon$$
Then the author argues that it is only when the second term on the right hand side is a linear function of ##\vec{v}##, it is a total derivative of time; therefore ##\frac{\partial f} {\partial v^2}## does not depend on velocity. Can someone help me on the detail of ##\epsilon## series expansion and how the conclusion drawn from this?

Screen Shot 2020-08-19 at 2.53.57 PM.png
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: etotheipi
Physics news on Phys.org
Has Landau covered Noether's theorem and, in particular, the concept of divergence invariance?
 
Actually, this is chapter one, so I don't know yet. I am just beginning using this book to review the content I learned last semester. I am mainly confused about the mathematical technique he uses, ( expand the Lagrangian as a power series of ##\epsilon##) when he analyze the difference of two Lagrangian functions.
 
zhuang382 said:
Actually, this is chapter one, so I don't know yet. I am just beginning using this book to review the content I learned last semester. I am mainly confused about the mathematical technique he uses, ( expand the Lagrangian as a power series of ##\epsilon##) when he analyze the difference of two Lagrangian functions.
That's just a Taylor series expansion to first order in ##\vec \epsilon##.

The rest of what he does needs some knowledge of Noether's theorem.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: zhuang382
PS Can you explain what he's actually trying to achieve with that calculation? That's the really important thing.
 
The ingenious feature of this book is that he starts from the fundamental content of Newtonian mechanics, i.e., invariance under the full Galilei group and derives why the laws look as they look. For a free particle you get uniquely ##L=m v^2/2##.

From tranlation invariance in space and time and rotation symmetry you get that ##L=L(\vec{v}^2)##. That's all trivial, because under this part of the group ##L## transforms as a simple scalar. For the invariance under Galilei boosts you need a non-trivial term, i.e.,
$$\tilde{L}(\tilde{v}^2)=L(\tilde{v}^2)+\mathrm{d}_t \Omega(\vec{x},t).$$
As a general analysis of Noether's theorem shows, you need it only for "infinitesimal transformations", i.e.,
$$\tilde{\vec{x}}=\vec{x}-\vec{\epsilon} t \; \Rightarrow \; \tilde{\vec{v}}=\vec{v}-\vec{\epsilon}.$$
Then you get
$$L(v^{\prime s})=\vec{\nabla}_{\epsilon} \vec{v}^{2} L'(v^2)=-2 \vec{\epsilon} t \cdot \vec{v} L'(\vec{v}^2) \stackrel{!}{=}-\mathrm{d}_t \Omega(\vec{x},t).$$
Now
$$\mathrm{d}_t \Omega (\vec{x},t)=\vec{v} \cdot \vec{\nabla}_x \Omega + \partial_t \Omega.$$
Comparing the left and the right-hand side shows that
$$\vec{\nabla}_x \Omega = 2 L'(\vec{v}^2) \vec{\epsilon} t, \quad \partial_t \Omega=0.$$
Since the left-hand side doesn't depend on ##\vec{v}## and the right-hand side doesn't depend on ##\vec{x}## we must have
$$L'(\vec{v}^2)=\frac{m}{2}=\text{const}, \quad \Omega=m \vec{\epsilon} \cdot \vec{x}.$$
This implies that the Lagrangian is Galilei-boost invariant in addition to the other symmetries of Galilei-Newton spacetime if and only if ##L## is equivalent to
$$L=\frac{m}{2} \vec{v}^2=\frac{m}{2} \dot{\vec{x}}^2.$$
This implies Newton's Lex II, according to which a free particle moves with constant velocity.

Noether's theorem tells us that the generators for boosts is
$$\vec{K}=m \vec{x}-m t \vec{v}.$$
Since this is the conserved quantity indeed it follows again that ##\vec{v}=\text{const}## along the trajectory of the particle.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: bhobba, zhuang382, PeroK and 1 other person

Similar threads

  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
399
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K