Layers of gravity and kinetic force - us to galaxy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of Earth's rotation, its orbit around the sun, and the movement of the solar system and galaxy on individual experiences of gravity and kinetic energy. Participants explore the relative nature of motion and the influence of larger cosmic forces on everyday life, touching on theoretical implications and practical observations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the Earth's rotation and orbit influence the path of a plane flying around it, suggesting that the Earth's rotation has a minimal effect on apparent weight.
  • Another participant mentions that the Earth's orbit is affected by nearby masses like Jupiter, which can cause deflections, but the effects on individual experiences are negligible.
  • There is a discussion about whether the gravity bubble we live in negates the influence of the universe's movement on kinetic energy tests, with some suggesting that astronomical calculations must account for these small factors.
  • Participants express curiosity about how the motion of the Earth and larger celestial bodies affects individuals, with one suggesting that the effects are so small that they are imperceptible in daily life.
  • One participant notes that forces are only felt when they are resisted, using the example of an astronaut in freefall to illustrate that both the astronaut and objects around them experience the same forces, resulting in no net effect.
  • Another participant highlights that tidal forces are the primary concern when considering the influence of larger bodies on individuals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the effects of cosmic movements on individual experiences are minimal, but there is no consensus on the extent or nature of these influences. Some viewpoints suggest that while certain forces exist, they do not significantly impact daily life.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of measuring the effects of large-scale movements and the need for careful calculations to account for various forces. The discussion includes references to theoretical concepts like Galilean invariance, but the implications remain open to interpretation.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals curious about the interplay between gravity, motion, and cosmic forces, particularly those without a formal background in physics.

Wade2
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Where there's a query, there's a forum! I'm glad I found this place.

So here's my quandary. The Earth is rotating. It's orbiting the sun. Our solar system drifts through the galaxy which galaxy is drifting through the universe. Supposedly, even though I stand still, I'm moving in some strange, undefined, curved/wobbly path through the universe.

Is it all relative? When a plane flies in it's curved path around the earth, does the rotation of the Earth or it's orbit influence the path of the plane? Does the gravity bubble we live in some how zero out the rest of the universe so when we do tests involving kinetic energy and things moving, it's all relative to us so that no matter if we're hurdling through the dark, something is either moving or not moving relative to us? Can we somehow detect the layers of force that work on us or are we so far down at the bottom of the totem pole of it all that any force that moves our world any beyond is irrelevant?

Is there another question I have not asked that I should be asking that can be answered? I'd like to know what that is too. Where does gravity play in all this? If the Earth is rotating, don't I have some kinetic energy in play, but because of the fact that any instrument to test that is moving too, that it zeros out the rotation of earth, orbit, system and galaxy drift?

You'd think I could just go play StarCraft or watch a movie, but no, the secrets of the universe demand to be answered! And I had to come here to find some understanding of it all.

Thank you for anyone who can break apart this kinetic onion.
 
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Wade2 said:
When a plane flies in it's curved path around the earth, does the rotation of the Earth or it's orbit influence the path of the plane?
In theory, yes. The Earth's rotation has a tiny, tiny effect on our apparent weight.

Orbit, no.


Wade2 said:
Does the gravity bubble we live in some how zero out the rest of the universe so when we do tests involving kinetic energy and things moving, it's all relative to us so that no matter if we're hurdling through the dark, something is either moving or not moving relative to us?
The Earth's orbit is indeed deflected a small amount by nearby masses such as Jupiter. Wobbles in some of our outer planets actually lead to the discovery of heretofore unknown planets.

Theoretically, Earth experiences Jovian tides. I'm not sure if anyone has goen toe trouble of trying to detect them though.


Wade2 said:
...any instrument to test that is moving too, that it zeros out the rotation of earth, orbit, system and galaxy drift?

No. Astromomical calculations must be carefully performed to eliminate these tiny factors or they will show up in the data.
 
Thanks for some of your insight. I'm still a little overwhelmed by it all. I did find a similar thread which shows that apparently I'm not alone in the universe on wondering about these things.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=212445

Just a few things in response which may show a little more about what my babblings were leading to. The wobbling thing was just referring to what 1 person's path would look like if you were to attempt to plot that path through space which I understand would be quite impossible to even display.

But I do wonder how the path of the earth, it's rotation, the movement of the solar system and galaxy affect us. Not us as in the whole planet when influenced by other masses, but me, you and everyone else. Does the velocity and vector of these larger things mentioned affect people in any perceivable, measurable way.

After thinking about it, it almost seems the answer is no or people building a towering house of playing cards would never finish and people couldn't ride unicycles. Any other thoughts?
 
Wade2 said:
But I do wonder how the path of the earth, it's rotation, the movement of the solar system and galaxy affect us. Not us as in the whole planet when influenced by other masses, but me, you and everyone else. Does the velocity and vector of these larger things mentioned affect people in any perceivable, measurable way.

After thinking about it, it almost seems the answer is no or people building a towering house of playing cards would never finish and people couldn't ride unicycles. Any other thoughts?

The short answer is: some do, some don't. The ones that do have a vanishingly small effect.

For example: Jupiter is pulling on us, it pulls Earth's orbit away from its normal path. However, it is pulling on both Earth and us equally. So, despite the fact that Earth may be a few thousand km from its proper location than if Jupiter weren't there, we too on Earth are also pulled, meaning that our relation to Earth is undisturbed.

In the same sense, an astronaut in the space shuttle is whizzing around the Earth in a tight circle every 90 minutes, but when he drops a screwdriver, it does not take off toward the nearest wall. Both astronaut and screwdriver are in the grips of the same forces, so the net effect is zero. And it is these net effects that we feel.

You do not feel forces unless they are being resisted. When you are in a freefalling elevator, you do not feel gravity - you feel weightless - no forces acting on you. When the elevator slows and stops is when you feel the force (the elevator pushing you up as it slows).
 
Ah! Thank you very much for entertaining my scientific inquiry. I hope to return here with any other questions of physics as I have never had a class on the subject, but wish I had.
 
Wade2 said:
Ah! Thank you very much for entertaining my scientific inquiry. I hope to return here with any other questions of physics as I have never had a class on the subject, but wish I had.

You are very welcome here. We will fall over ourselves to answer your questions.
 
granpa said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilean_invariance

Well, sort of but notice they say:

The fact that the Earth on which we stand orbits around the sun at approximately 30 km/s offers a somewhat more dramatic example, though technically not an inertial reference frame..

It's this very thing that the OP is interested in.
 
to answer the op
the only forces that you would actually have to worry about are tidal forces.
 

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