Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven vs Spirit's Taurus

[Astronuc]

Did Led Zeppelin Plagiarize 'Stairway'? A Penn. Judge Will Decide

http://www.npr.org/2014/10/26/35890...-plagiarize-stairway-a-penn-judge-will-decide

I think they are sufficiently different.

 

[symbolipoint]

When will artists realize that musical ideas are just floating through the air, waiting for an artist to catch it and use it? (That's a rephrasing from what a very famous guitar player said, a few times.) Judge that!

 

[zoobyshoe]

Did Led Zeppelin Plagiarize 'Stairway'? A Penn. Judge Will Decide

http://www.npr.org/2014/10/26/35890...-plagiarize-stairway-a-penn-judge-will-decide

I think they are sufficiently different.

Yes. They're only exactly the same for about two bars or so. I'd bet Zepplin would admit under truth serum they lifted those two bars straight from Spirit, but I think that's under the minimum requirement for plagiarism. The rest of "Stairway" is developed very differently from "Taurus," and is pretty clearly a different song.

 

[Astronuc]

The civil lawsuit is being tried presently.

Led Zeppelin's Page Dodges Court Questions, Riffs Air Guitar
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/led-zeppelins-page-dodges-court-questions-riffs-air-39925725

While experts for the plaintiffs previously said there are many similarities between "Taurus" and the intro to the 1971 "Stairway," Lawrence Ferrara said the likeness was limited.

The main trait they shared, a notable descending minor chord progression, is common building block in songs dating back 300 years and is found throughout pop music predating Wolfe's composition from 1967 or 1968.

Comparing differences in the arrangement of the same notes in both songs was like rearranging the letters in "treason" to spell "senator," Ferrara said, noting that the succession of letters makes a difference.

He said similar chord pairs other experts highlighted as important was like comparing pairings of the words "and the" in one short story to another.

"That I would not call a relevant similarity," Ferrara said.

A musician analyzes the songs, their similarity, and their differences.


I enjoyed Spirit and love 'Taurus', which is a wonderful piece of music. 'Stairway to Heaven' is OK, but it got overplayed. I'm glad Page and Plant made a fortune from it. That Taurus didn't catch on the same way is what happens in the marketplace.

 

[Jonathan Scott]

Personally I think "Stairway to Heaven" is more similar to Davey Graham's "Cry me a river":
http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/04/15/bombshell-emerges-in-stairway-to-heaven-plagiarism-case/
I'm surprised we haven't heard more about that.

 

[russ_watters]

I haven't listened to Taurus yet, but I did see a Facebook post once from an ignorant littlet twerp lamenting how this new band "Queen" had ripped off the riff from "Ice, Ice, Baby".

 

[collinsmark]

Personally I think "Stairway to Heaven" is more similar to Davey Graham's "Cry me a river":
http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/04/15/bombshell-emerges-in-stairway-to-heaven-plagiarism-case/
I'm surprised we haven't heard more about that.

Yeah, me too. Page/Plant have been claiming that the riff was a not too terribly uncommon, traditional one (common enough at least that other musicians used it too, or variations of it). I guess that about wraps that up.

but I did see a Facebook post once from an ignorant littlet twerp lamenting how this new band "Queen" had ripped off the riff from "Ice, Ice, Baby".

Ha! Yeah, forget about Spirit; Zeppelin stole all their stuff from the Beastie Boys.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I have no idea how this will turn out - juries love the idea of someone successful having stolen from the less successful. However, there have been cases with a lot more similarity without a judgment or even without a lawsuit. Wingy Manone's "Tar Paper Stomp" and Joe Garland's "In The Mood", as an example.

 

[Astronuc]

Overshadowed by the tragedy in Orlando and Britain's vote to leave the UK,

Led Zeppelin cleared of plagiarism in Stairway case
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36611961

Led Zeppelin did not copy 'Stairway to Heaven' intro, jury finds
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/23/media/stairway-to-heaven-trial-verdict/

 

[dedindi]

it seems that piece is a public domain written in baroque era by harpist O'Carolan

https://musictales.club/article/celtic-baroque-roots-stairway-heaven

 

[symbolipoint]

Aside from legal challenges of artists stealing ideas or elements from other artists, this borrowing of ideas has often occurred and will likely continue. Look at Blues, Boogie Woogie, and "Rock n Roll"/R&B piano pieces. Some of Jimmy Yancey's elements have been worked into some other piano artists pieces. An idea from Willie Hall and Ch. Jack Dupree's Junker's Blues have gone almost directly into Lawdy Miss Claudy, Fat Man, and Tipitina. (Try a search on YouTube for "Yancey Special").

 

[pinball1970]

Its just a chromatic descent over minor chord and the rest is totally different.

Zep stick that B note on as well that makes it. So you have Am Am/G# bass with B over top.

While my guitar gently weeps, Cry Baby Cry have similar descending parts

 

[pinball1970]

All in 1968 though?
White Album was recorded in September 68 Spirit released in January..68

 

[symbolipoint]

Its just a chromatic descent over minor chord and the rest is totally different.

Zep stick that B note on as well that makes it. So you have Am Am/G# bass with B over top.

While my guitar gently weeps, Cry Baby Cry have similar descending parts

Also compare to a Jim Croce song (Time In A Bottle.); occurs in restricted parts of the song.

 

[pinball1970]

Also compare to a Jim Croce song (Time In A Bottle.); occurs in restricted parts of the song.

Nice, I like the way he goes to the major for the chorus.

must be a load of songs with that structure and Am is an easy way to do it because because its in first position (guitar)

Ooh - ending was nice! Minor ninth he stole that off yes!

 

[pinball1970]

Ok using that descending bass line in the chord progression I have 1960 and Shadows also in Am

 

[Jonathan Scott]

It's usually considered OK to nick stuff which is out of copyright. I just saw a bit of the film "Willow" when changing channels, and immediately spotted that James Horner's main theme music for it was based on Schumann's Rhenish symphony, and from a bit of Googling it seems a lot of people agree.

 

[Jimmy]

It's usually considered OK to nick stuff which is out of copyright. I just saw a bit of the film "Willow" when changing channels, and immediately spotted that James Horner's main theme music for it was based on Schumann's Rhenish symphony, and from a bit of Googling it seems a lot of people agree.

For Aliens, he borrows a bit from Aram Khachaturian's Gayane Ballet Suite:

Start around 1:00 - 1:30

 

[hmmm27]

 

[BWV]

Its the same basic chord progression - but how many pop songs use the same chords?

 

[hmmm27]

You mean like "the blues" ? There's only a certain amount of chord progressions that don't sound like crap. Stairway's issue was one of the bands had been the other's opening act.

 

[hmmm27]

(from the 'net...) Chim Chim Cheree (1964, Mary Poppins movie), Michelle (1965, Beatles), My Funny Valentine (1937)... I find "Summertime" to be similar, also the Pink Panther song.

On the other hand, one of the bands opened for the other (can't remember which) on tour, so wins the cointoss for "inspiration" at least.