Length of Curve: Find Radius Around (0,0)

  • Thread starter Thread starter soofjan
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Curve Length
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the length of a curve on the surface defined by the equation z=xy, where the projection onto the xy-plane is a circle of radius 1 centered at (0,0).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants attempt to apply the formula for the length of a curve using parametric equations for a circle, leading to an integrand that some find non-integrable. Questions arise regarding the correctness of the integral setup and whether there might be an error in the problem statement.

Discussion Status

Several participants express similar findings regarding the integrability of the resulting expression. There is acknowledgment of the complexity of the integral, with one participant suggesting it can be related to elliptic integrals, indicating a productive exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the integral derived is not elementary, which raises questions about the assumptions made in the problem setup. There is a lack of consensus on the integrability and the potential implications of this on the problem itself.

soofjan
Messages
18
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


Find the length of the curve on the sufrace z=xy, whose projection on the xy plane is a 1 radius circle around (0,0).


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


Length of a curve - usually linear integration of the first kind, when f(x,y,z)=1. So I tried:
x=cos(t), y=sin(t), 0<t<2*pi for the circle, z=cos(t)*sin(t). I got the integrand: sqrt(1+cos(2t)^2), which is not integrable.
Am I missing something, or could this be a mistake in the question..?

Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
soofjan said:

Homework Statement


Find the length of the curve on the sufrace z=xy, whose projection on the xy plane is a 1 radius circle around (0,0).


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


Length of a curve - usually linear integration of the first kind, when f(x,y,z)=1. So I tried:
x=cos(t), y=sin(t), 0<t<2*pi for the circle, z=cos(t)*sin(t). I got the integrand: sqrt(1+cos(2t)^2), which is not integrable.
Am I missing something, or could this be a mistake in the question..?

Thanks!

How did you get that integral? The formula for length of a curve as I know it is,

\int^{t_{2}}_{t_{1}} \sqrt{(\frac{dx}{dt})^{2} + (\frac{dy}{dt})^{2} + (\frac{dz}{dt})^{2}}dt
 
x' = -sin(t)
y' = cos(t)
z = cos(t)*sin(t) = sin(2t)/2 --> z' = cos(2t)

(x')^2+(y')^2+(z')^2 = [-sin(t)]^2+cos(t)^2+cos(2t)^2 = 1+cos(2t)^2

hence, sqrt[1+cos(2t)^2]
 
soofjan said:

Homework Statement


Find the length of the curve on the sufrace z=xy, whose projection on the xy plane is a 1 radius circle around (0,0).


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


Length of a curve - usually linear integration of the first kind, when f(x,y,z)=1. So I tried:
x=cos(t), y=sin(t), 0<t<2*pi for the circle, z=cos(t)*sin(t). I got the integrand: sqrt(1+cos(2t)^2), which is not integrable.
Am I missing something, or could this be a mistake in the question..?

Thanks!

I get the same thing and you are correct that it is not an elementary integral.
 
Ok, thanks.
 
If it matters, and it probably doesn't, you can express the integral as an incomplete elliptic integral function of the second kind. It's actually rather interesting.
 

Similar threads

Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K