Light in local reference frames in extreme gravitational fields.

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the behavior of light in local reference frames within extreme gravitational fields, examining the implications for special relativity (SR) and causality. Participants explore whether SR remains valid under such conditions and consider the potential need for modifications to spacetime diagrams.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that light always travels at speed c in its local reference frame, regardless of gravitational influence, to maintain causality as per SR.
  • Others argue that SR may not adequately describe light behavior in strong gravitational fields, suggesting it could be a good approximation only in weak fields.
  • A participant questions the ability to measure light in local reference frames and speculates that light might travel less than c due to gravitational effects, raising the possibility of rewriting spacetime diagrams.
  • One participant expresses interest in experimenting with modifications to spacetime diagrams to account for gravitational fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach consensus, as there are competing views on the applicability of SR in extreme gravitational fields and the nature of light's speed in such contexts.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the effects of extreme gravitational fields on light and the validity of SR in those scenarios. The discussion also reflects a lack of clarity on how to measure light in local reference frames under these conditions.

JPBenowitz
Messages
144
Reaction score
2
As I understand in SR light is always c in it's local reference frame regardless of a present gravitational field. Light would appear to be traveling slightly less than c in a gravitational field otherwise known as the Sharpio Delay in all non-local reference frames. Now, light must be traveling at c in the local reference frames to preserve causality as a consequence of SR. However, since we cannot measure light in any local reference frame is it not possible that it may be traveling less than c due to the gravitational field and s-t diagrams could be re-written to prevent any breaking of causality? If so what could the consequences be?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I guess what I am saying is that perhaps SR, like Newtonian Physics is a great approximation for weak gravitational fields but not for extreme ones.
 
JPBenowitz said:
As I understand in SR light is always c in its local reference frame regardless of a present gravitational field.

Special relativity doesn't apply in the presence of gravitational fields strong enough to noticeably affect the behavior of light. So you shouldn't interpret SR as making predictions regardless of a present gravitational field; it's more in the absence of such a field.
 
JPBenowitz said:
I guess what I am saying is that perhaps SR, like Newtonian Physics is a great approximation for weak gravitational fields but not for extreme ones.

Our replies appear to have crossed :)
 
Nugatory said:
Our replies appear to have crossed :)

Well, I am a Physics Undergraduate and I think I might just start playing around with modifying s-t diagrams introducing a gravitational field and see what happens.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K