Limit to strength of electron magnetic field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the behavior of the magnetic field generated by an electron as it approaches the speed of light. Participants explore whether the magnetic field will continue to grow indefinitely or if it will reach a limit, considering various theoretical frameworks and implications of relativistic effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the magnetic field of an electron will grow indefinitely as its speed approaches the speed of light.
  • Others argue that there is an upper limit to the magnetic field strength, suggesting that it approaches a maximum value as the speed approaches the speed of light.
  • A participant introduces the Biot-Savart Law to describe the magnetic field strength in relation to the observer's position and the charge's velocity, indicating that the field strength is greatest at closest approach.
  • Another participant presents a different perspective using the Lienard-Wiechert potentials, suggesting that the magnetic field behaves differently at relativistic speeds.
  • Some participants discuss the relationship between the electric field and the magnetic field, noting that both fields increase due to relativistic effects, particularly length contraction.
  • There is a suggestion that while the magnetic field may have a limit, it is affected by the compression of the electric field due to relativistic effects.
  • One participant clarifies that the ratio of the strength of the magnetic field to the strength of the electric field has a limit, indicating a nuanced understanding of the relationship between the two fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the magnetic field has a limit or grows indefinitely. Some agree that relativistic effects play a significant role in the behavior of both the electric and magnetic fields, while others challenge the interpretations and calculations presented.

Contextual Notes

Discussions include references to specific equations and laws, such as the Biot-Savart Law and Gauss's Law, which may have limitations based on assumptions made during the analysis. The relationship between electric and magnetic fields in relativistic contexts remains a point of contention.

granpa
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if an electron is accelerated closer and closer to the speed of light, will its magnetic field grow forever or will it approach a limit?
 
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Its magnetic field will grow forever.
 
A point charge traveling at velocity v wrt to an observer will create 'rings' of magnetic field strength B centered along the axis of travel.

The magnitude of B will be greatest when the particle is at nearest distance to the Observer (O)when it path is at a right angle to O.

Using the Biot-Savart Law for a point charge:

B= µ(0)/4π. qv/r² When at closest.

The maximum velocity will tend to c but can never get to c so the B-field will only tend to this upper limit. I.e. In answer to the original question, there is an upper limit.

Hence the case of two protons traveling past an observer at near c will show that the repulsion due to the +ve charges will be almost balanced by the attraction due to the Magnetic effects.

Hence beams of like charges traveling at near c in say a particle accelerator will stay confined to a beam far longer than if you just calculated the Electrostatic repulsions, because the Magenetic attraction between the charges almost compensate when near c wrt to the lab.
 
"B= µ(0)/4π. qv/r² When at closest."

Lienard, Wiechert, and I disagree. For a constant v, B at closest approach is
B~qv/[r^2\sqrt{1-v^/c^2}].

It is true that F_E~F_B
 
granpa said:
if an electron is accelerated closer and closer to the speed of light, will its magnetic field grow forever or will it approach a limit?
Yes. Definitely. The magnetic field of a moving charge is proportional to the electric field strength as measured in the charges rest frame, the particle's velocity and the value [itex]\gamma = (1 - \beta^2)^{-1/2}[/itex] which goes to infinity as v -> c.

Pete
 
http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~rfield/PHY2061/images/relativity_21.pdf gives an explicit formula for the magnetic field of a moving charge. Earlier and later webpages made by replacing the '21' with other numbers may also be of interest, though you have to type the URL in manually AFAIK. These earlier webpages include discussion and derivation and other topics on relativistic electrodynamics.

The formula for the field as a function of angle is involved, but setting [itex]\theta=0[/itex] makes it simpler, one can see in that case that the field gets multiplied by a factor of gamma as other posters have remarked.

Note that the electric field of a moving charge particle is given in http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~rfield/PHY2061/images/relativity_14.pdf and may not be intuitively obvious.
 
so the magnetic field perpendicular to the particles motion increases forever but so does the electric field due to length contraction, and both by the same amount?

does length contraction entirely explain the strength of the magnetic field everywhere? if so then that would mean that the magnetic field does have a limit but then gets contracted into a smaller space.
 
Last edited:
The Gauss law integral of the electric field around the charge must be a constant. So the integral of the normal field * surface area for any surface enclosing the charge must be a constant number, the enclosed charge.

Your remarks about the field being squashed are generally correct, but I'm not sure I understand the exact question well enough to give a yes or no answer. Hopefully the Gauss law integral will clarify things for the electric field case.
 
http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~rfield/PHY2061/images/relativity_21.pdf

if i am reading this correctly, one first calculates the compressed electric field (which increases without limit in one direction) and then the magnetic field is simply the cross product of that and its velocity (which has a limit).

therefore one could say that the magnetic field does have a limit but it and the electric field both get compressed (without limit)due to relativistic length contraction.
 
  • #10
granpa said:
http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~rfield/PHY2061/images/relativity_21.pdf

if i am reading this correctly, one first calculates the compressed electric field (which increases without limit in one direction) and then the magnetic field is simply the cross product of that and its velocity (which has a limit).

therefore one could say that the magnetic field does have a limit but it and the electric field both get compressed (without limit)due to relativistic length contraction.

To me, saying the magnetic field "had a limit" would imply that there is some number M such that B is always less than M, and this is false.

Similarly, there is no number M such that E is always less than M.

Other than that, I think you have the right idea.
 
  • #11
i mean that the ratio of the strength of the magnetic field to the strength of the electric field has a limit.
 

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