Looking for a clear distinction between laws and kinematics

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    Kinematics Laws
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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the distinction between the laws of nature and kinematics, exploring their definitions and relationships within the context of physics. Participants examine whether these concepts overlap and how they relate to motion, forces, and reference frames.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a clear definition of the distinction between laws of nature and kinematics, suggesting that laws relate to forces and potentials while kinematics pertains to velocities and reference frames.
  • Another participant asserts that kinematics is fundamentally about motion, implying that if a law of nature does not concern motion, it may not be relevant to the discussion.
  • A different viewpoint claims that kinematics is a subset of Newton's Laws, suggesting that kinematics arises as a consequence of these laws.
  • Another participant posits that the laws of nature provide the foundation for equations of motion, while kinematics represents the application of these equations.
  • One participant expands on the discussion by mentioning Lagrangian mechanics and Hamiltonian kinematics, indicating that historical perspectives on kinematics have evolved from empirical observations to more formalized theories, including those introduced by Newton and later by Einstein.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between laws of nature and kinematics, with no clear consensus reached regarding their definitions or distinctions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference historical developments in physics and the evolution of kinematic equations, indicating that definitions may depend on the context of discussion and the specific frameworks being considered.

SamRoss
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Can anyone define the distinction between the laws of nature and the kinematics of nature? I am thinking that laws have more to do with forces and potentials and kinematics have more to do with velocities and reference frames but I cannot formulate a clear definition of one that does not overlap with the other. Is there a distinction or should I not even bother?
 
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Kinematics by definition has to do with motion, so unless you can find a law of nature that is not concerned with motion, you are correct and should not even bother.
 
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Kinematics is a subset of Newton's Laws. That is, kinematics are a consequence of Newton's Laws. You can also talk about relativistic kinematics being a consequence of Newton's Laws as modified by relativity.
 
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The laws of nature would be where the equations of motion come from (i.e. principle of least action, conservation laws, etc). The application of these equations if motion is kinematics of one kind or another.
 
True, which is what I said in a different way. You could also approach things from Lagrangian mechanics, probably ending up with Hamiltonian kinematics. But he was dealing with Newtonian mechanics, so I kept to that. As you know, some pre-Newton scientists had worked out some kinematic equations on a strictly empirical basis, but Newton showed where these came from, in the nonrelativistic, low gravity field instances.
(Then this guy named Albert messed up everything.)
 

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