Lorentz Factor Expansion: Analytic Continuation Value

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Bradosgood
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Expansion
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the Lorentz factor and its behavior as an object approaches the speed of light. Participants explore the implications of a Maclaurin expansion of the Lorentz factor, particularly in the context of divergent series and analytic continuation. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects, mathematical reasoning, and potential applications in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that objects with mass cannot be accelerated to the speed of light due to the Lorentz factor diverging to infinity.
  • One participant proposes that the series resulting from the Maclaurin expansion diverges and questions whether it has an analytic continuation.
  • Another participant states that the analytic continuation of the function is singular at ##\beta=1##, leading to the conclusion that it can be assigned the value of infinity.
  • There is a suggestion that methods exist to sum divergent series, referencing the series 1+2+3+4+..., but the interpretation of such results is noted to be delicate.
  • One participant expresses interest in using divergent sums with assignable values, drawing parallels to bosonic string theory and quantum field theory (QFT) renormalization methods.
  • Another participant challenges the comparison with QFT renormalization, arguing that the singularity at ##v/c=1## arises from the inconsistency of applying Lorentz transformations to massive objects traveling at light speed.
  • There is uncertainty expressed regarding the potential meaning or value of summing the series, with some participants suggesting that the inquiry is more mathematically motivated than physically grounded.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement. While there is a shared understanding that the Lorentz factor diverges at light speed, opinions diverge on the implications of this divergence, the validity of summing divergent series, and the relevance of analytic continuation methods.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the understanding of divergent series and analytic continuation, as well as the assumptions underlying the application of Lorentz transformations to massive objects. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity and sensitivity of the topic, particularly in relation to interpretations in theoretical physics.

Bradosgood
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
simply put, objects with mass cannot be accelerated to exactly the speed of light as the Lorentz factor will diverge to infinity. If you take the Maclaurin expansion of the Lorentz factor

12197b735002b40d712c535cb843c586.png

And then allow the velocity of the object to hypothetically be equal to the speed of light or let B=1
then your left with a series
=1+1/+2+3/8+5/16+35/128...
which is divergent.
My question is, does this series have an analytic continuation and if so what is the value assigned to that continuation ?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The analytic continuation is that of the function ##\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\beta^2}}##, it is singular at ##\beta=1## so you can assign it the value ##\infty## but that's it - you can't remove a pole from a function by using a series expansion.
 
wabbit said:
The analytic continuation is that of the function ##\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\beta^2}}##, it is singular at ##\beta=1## so you can assign it the value ##\infty## but that's it - you can't remove a pole from a function by using a series expansion.
So there is no sum ability method for this series ? Abel Cesàro ??
 
Oh I don't know about that, if I recall correctly you can sum the series 1+2+3+4+... with the right method. But the interpretation of such results is delicate, and I don't see what this can tell you about the Lorentz factor: that factor goes to infinity as you approach light speed, and this is not going to go away by magic.
 
wabbit said:
Oh I don't know about that, if I recall correctly you can sum the series 1+2+3+4+... with the right method. But the interpretation of such results is delicate, and I don't see what this can tell you about the Lorentz factor: that factor goes to infinity as you approach light speed, and this is not going to go away by magic.
That's what I'm trying to get at, there are several methods to assign values to divergent sums, I've looked through Hardy's divergent Series but its not explicit on which method to use for which series. I need the infinite product in terms of integrals, I know it involves factorials so maybe the gamma function ?? thoughts?
 
Interesting article, this is a very sensitive subject up to interpretation. I felt after reading about divergent sums with assignable values that this was an immediate extension, bosonic string theory makes use of the analytic continuation of the natural number sum
f98fa2eae8ba3eeea13695e76d746d5d.png

and QFT use renormalization methods to evaluate path integrals. Why not apply similar methods to evaluate singularities in other areas ?
 
Bradosgood said:
and QFT use renormalization methods to evaluate path integrals. Why not apply similar methods to evaluate singularities in other areas ?
It sounds as if you're trying for a more mathematically sophisticated way of seeing what happens "if we could" just set ##v=c## in the Lorentz transforms. It's an interesting thought, but what do you expect the answer might tell you? The comparison with QFT renormalization is misleading in one very important way:

Bradosgood said:
simply put, objects with mass cannot be accelerated to exactly the speed of light as the Lorentz factor will diverge to infinity.
That's sort of backwards. It might be better to say that because no massive object can be accelerated to exactly the speed of light, there's no particular reason to be surprised that equations describing the behavior of massive objects refuse to predict travel at the speed of light; or that because the Lorentz transform are derived under assumptions that are inconsistent with travel at the speed of light, they cannot be applied to that situation. Either way, the singularity at ##v/c=1## isn't what's stopping us from traveling at lightspeed; instead the singularity is there because there is no consistent way of combining the principle of relativity, the laws of E&M, and massive bodies moving at the speed of light.
 
Nugatory said:
It sounds as if you're trying for a more mathematically sophisticated way of seeing what happens "if we could" just set ##v=c## in the Lorentz transforms. It's an interesting thought, but what do you expect the answer might tell you? The comparison with QFT renormalization is misleading in one very important way:That's sort of backwards. It might be better to say that because no massive object can be accelerated to exactly the speed of light, there's no particular reason to be surprised that equations describing the behavior of massive objects refuse to predict travel at the speed of light; or that because the Lorentz transform are derived under assumptions that are inconsistent with travel at the speed of light, they cannot be applied to that situation. Either way, the singularity at ##v/c=1## isn't what's stopping us from traveling at lightspeed; instead the singularity is there because there is no consistent way of combining the principle of relativity, the laws of E&M, and massive bodies moving at the speed of light.

I am very unsure as to weather or not the answer will have any meaning at all or even if there is an answer. If there is an answer I expect it will be nonsensical much like other divergent series assigned unintuitive values. It is certainly possible that there is no summation method applicable to this series. I will admit the idea is much more mathematically motivated rather than from a physics perspective. QFT renormalization has roots in regularization theory, perturbation theory and asymptotic analysis, Feynman diagrams are basically a pictorial description of evaluating infinites i was merely reasoning by analogy.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
1K
  • · Replies 53 ·
2
Replies
53
Views
4K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
4K