Lorentz Transformation: Coefficients a_{nm}(u) & Inverse Relations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the coefficients of the Lorentz transformation equations, specifically the functions a_{nm}(u) that relate coordinates in different inertial frames. Participants explore the implications of these coefficients being dependent on relative velocity and the conditions under which certain simplifications can be made in the transformation equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the coefficients a_{nm} are functions solely of the relative velocity u, suggesting that this is the only factor differentiating the frames F and F'.
  • Others argue that the linearity of the transformation equations implies that time and space are homogeneous, raising questions about the implications of this linearity.
  • A later reply questions the conditions under which certain coefficients can be simplified, specifically noting that this is valid only when the relative velocity is perpendicular to the axes y and z.
  • Participants discuss whether the independence of coefficients affecting y' and z' from relative speed is a consequence of the isotropy of space, with some asserting that it stems from the lack of reason to assume speed affects dimensions orthogonal to it.
  • One participant references a general Lorentz transformation, indicating that the transformation matrix becomes more complex in cases of arbitrary motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the coefficients' dependence on velocity and the conditions for simplifications in the transformation equations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of these relationships.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of space and motion, particularly concerning isotropy and the effects of relative velocity on dimensions. There are unresolved mathematical steps related to the generalization of the Lorentz transformation.

Petar Mali
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[tex]x'=a_{11}x+a_{12}y+a_{13}z+a_{14}t[/tex]

[tex]y'=a_{21}x+a_{22}y+a_{23}z+a_{24}t[/tex]

[tex]z'=a_{31}x+a_{32}y+a_{33}z+a_{34}t[/tex]

[tex]t'=a_{41}x+a_{42}y+a_{43}z+a_{44}t[/tex]

[tex]\vec{u}=u\vec{e}_x[/tex]

Coefficients [tex]a_{nm}=a_{nm}(u)[/tex]

Why I suppose that coefficients are function only of velocity [tex]u[/tex]?

Inverse relations

[tex]x=a_{11}'x'+a_{12}'y'+a_{13}'z'+a_{14}'t'[/tex]

[tex]y=a_{21}'x'+a_{22}'y'+a_{23}'z'+a_{24}'t'[/tex]

[tex]z=a_{31}'x'+a_{32}'y'+a_{33}'z'+a_{34}'t'[/tex]

[tex]t=a_{41}'x'+a_{42}'y'+a_{43}'z'+a_{44}'t'[/tex]

[tex]a_{nm}'(u)=a_{nm}(-u)[/tex]

Equations of transformations are linear (time and space are homogeneous).

That means from linearity of transformations [tex]\Rightarrow[/tex] time and space are homogeneous?

Why now I can say

[tex]y'=a_{22}y[/tex]

[tex]z'=a_{33}z[/tex]

[tex]t'=a_{41}x+a_{44}t[/tex]?

Thanks for your answer!
 
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Petar Mali said:
[tex]x'=a_{11}x+a_{12}y+a_{13}z+a_{14}t[/tex]

[tex]y'=a_{21}x+a_{22}y+a_{23}z+a_{24}t[/tex]

[tex]z'=a_{31}x+a_{32}y+a_{33}z+a_{34}t[/tex]

[tex]t'=a_{41}x+a_{42}y+a_{43}z+a_{44}t[/tex]

[tex]\vec{u}=u\vec{e}_x[/tex]

Coefficients [tex]a_{nm}=a_{nm}(u)[/tex]

Why I suppose that coefficients are function only of velocity [tex]u[/tex]?

Because the presence of a relative speed is the only thing that differentiates frames F and F'.
Inverse relations

[tex]x=a_{11}'x'+a_{12}'y'+a_{13}'z'+a_{14}'t'[/tex]

[tex]y=a_{21}'x'+a_{22}'y'+a_{23}'z'+a_{24}'t'[/tex]

[tex]z=a_{31}'x'+a_{32}'y'+a_{33}'z'+a_{34}'t'[/tex]

[tex]t=a_{41}'x'+a_{42}'y'+a_{43}'z'+a_{44}'t'[/tex]

[tex]a_{nm}'(u)=a_{nm}(-u)[/tex]

Equations of transformations are linear (time and space are homogeneous).

That means from linearity of transformations [tex]\Rightarrow[/tex] time and space are homogeneous?

Reverse the arrow direction and you will get the correct implication.
Why now I can say

[tex]y'=a_{22}y[/tex]

[tex]z'=a_{33}z[/tex]

[tex]t'=a_{41}x+a_{44}t[/tex]?

Thanks for your answer!

You can do this only in the specific case when the velocity between frames F and F' is perpendicular on the axes y and z. In other words, the coefficients affecting the formulas for y' and z' do not depend on the relative speed v.
 
Thanks a lot!

@starthaus

You can do this only in the specific case when the velocity between frames F and F' is perpendicular on the axes y and z. In other words, the coefficients affecting the formulas for y' and z' do not depend on the relative speed v.

Yes, but why is that? Is that consequence of isotropy of space? Can you say some more words about this?
 
Petar Mali said:
Thanks a lot!

@starthaus

You can do this only in the specific case when the velocity between frames F and F' is perpendicular on the axes y and z. In other words, the coefficients affecting the formulas for y' and z' do not depend on the relative speed v.

Yes, but why is that? Is that consequence of isotropy of space? Can you say some more words about this?

No, it is a consequence of the fact that there is no reason to assume that speed affects the dimensions orthogonal to it.
Now, the formulas for the arbitrary motion, you can find the general Lorentz transformation https://www.physicsforums.com/blog.php?b=1959 . As you can see, in this case the transformation matrix is not sparse anymore.
 
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