Magnetization of the core of a long solenoid

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a long solenoid with a steel core and seeks to determine the magnetization of the core based on its physical parameters, including turns per unit length and current. The discussion centers around the application of Ampere's Law and the relationships between magnetic fields and material properties.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the application of Ampere's Law and the definitions of magnetic fields, questioning the presence of certain factors in the equations. There is discussion about the relationship between the magnetic field strength and the magnetization, with some participants suggesting approximations based on the relative permeability of the material.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging in clarifying the equations and relationships involved in the problem. There is a recognition of differing interpretations of the magnetic fields involved, and some guidance is offered regarding the definitions of external fields and their contributions to the overall magnetization.

Contextual Notes

There are indications that the textbook may not adequately cover certain aspects of the magnetic fields involved, leading to confusion among participants. The discussion also highlights the need for clarity on the definitions of B-fields and H-fields in the context of the problem.

prodo123
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Homework Statement


A long solenoid of 60 turns/cm carries a current of 0.15 A. It wraps a steel core with relative permeability ##\mu_r=5200##. Find the magnitude of the magnetization of the core.

Homework Equations


##N=\lambda L##
##\chi = \mu_r-1##
##\mu = \mu_r\mu_0##
##\vec{M}=\chi\vec{H}##
where ##\vec{H}## is the external magnetic field applied to the core and ##\vec{M}## is the magnetization of the core. This equation never showed up on the textbook for some reason.
##\vec{B_m}=\mu_0\vec{M}##
where ##\vec{B_m}## is the additional magnetic field in the core induced by the external field ##\vec{H}##.Constants for the problem:
##\lambda=6000## (60 turns/cm = 6000 turns/m)
##I=0.15##

The Attempt at a Solution


The magnetic field induced by the solenoid is the external magnetic field ##\vec{H}## applied to the core.
Ampere's Law finds the induced magnetic field of the solenoid along the center axis as:
##\int \vec{H}\cdot d\vec{l} = \mu_0 N I##
##HL=\mu_0 \lambda L I##
##H=\mu_0 \lambda I##
##H = 1.13 \text{ mT}##

##\chi=\mu_r-1=\frac{M}{H}##
##M = H(\mu_r-1)##
##M = 5.88\text{ A/m}##

The textbook has a completely different answer:
##M = \mu_r \lambda I##
##M = 4.68\text{ MA/m}##

which I assume took the following steps:
##H=\mu_0 \lambda I##
##B_m=\mu\lambda I = \mu_0 M##
##M = \frac{\mu}{\mu_0}\lambda I##
##M = \mu_r \lambda I##

Which is the right approach and why?
 
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prodo123 said:
Ampere's Law finds the induced magnetic field of the solenoid along the center axis as:
##\int \vec{H}\cdot d\vec{l} = \mu_0 N I##
Hello. There should not be a factor of ##\mu_0## on the right side of the above equation.

Also, note ##M = H(\mu_r - 1) \approx H \mu_r##.
 
TSny said:
Hello. There should not be a factor of ##\mu_0## on the right side of the above equation.
Sorry for the confusion, all the fields are B-fields, let me revise...maybe that's the issue?

##\int \vec{B}\cdot d\vec{l}=\mu_0 N I##
##BL=\mu_0 \lambda L I##
##B=\mu_0 L I##
##B=1.13\text {mT}##
 
TSny said:
Hello. There should not be a factor of ##\mu_0## on the right side of the above equation.

Also, note ##M = H(\mu_r - 1) \approx H \mu_r##.
The textbook doesn't discuss at all H-fields, so if I read what's online correctly,
Para- and diamagnetism have B- and H-fields proportional such that ##\vec{B} = \mu \vec{H}##. The external field ##\vec{B}## is therefore equal to ##\mu_0 \vec{H}##.
##M=\chi H = \chi\frac{B}{\mu_0}##
##M = (\mu_r-1)\frac{B}{\mu_0}\approx\mu_r\frac{B}{\mu_0}##
##M=4.68\text{ MA/m}##
 
prodo123 said:
The textbook doesn't discuss at all H-fields, so if I read what's online correctly,
Para- and diamagnetism have B- and H-fields proportional such that ##\vec{B} = \mu \vec{H}##. The external field ##\vec{B}## is therefore equal to ##\mu_0 \vec{H}##.
OK. By "external field" you mean just the part of ##\vec{B}## that is due to the current in the winding of the solenoid.
##M=\chi H = \chi\frac{B}{\mu_0}##
##M = (\mu_r-1)\frac{B}{\mu_0}\approx\mu_r\frac{B}{\mu_0}##
##M=4.68\text{ MA/m}##
OK. In the first two lines here, ##\vec{B}## is the "external" field.
 
TSny said:
OK. By "external field" you mean just the part of ##\vec{B}## that is due to the current in the winding of the solenoid.
OK. In the above three lines, ##\vec{B}## is the "external" field.
Yes, the external field ##\vec{B}## in the equations is the B-field due to the current in the coils only.
 

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