Magnitude of a component of a triple star

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the apparent magnitude of the third component of a triple star system, given the apparent total magnitude and the magnitudes of two components. The context involves concepts from astrophysics related to stellar magnitudes and flux densities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the apparent magnitude of the third component using relationships between flux densities and magnitudes. Some participants question the relationship between individual flux densities and the combined flux density, exploring how to express the total flux in terms of the individual components.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, exploring different relationships and mathematical expressions. There is an ongoing examination of how to relate the individual flux densities to the total flux density, with some guidance provided on the mathematical relationships involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the absence of specific values for the flux densities, which may impact the ability to fully resolve the problem. The discussion also reflects on the definitions and assumptions regarding flux density in the context of multiple sources.

TheSodesa
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Homework Statement


The apparent total magnitude of a triple star is ##m_0 = 0,0##. The apparent magnitudes of two of its components are ##m_1 = 1,0## and ##m_2 = 2,0##.

What is the apparent magnitude of the third component?

Answer: 0,9

Homework Equations


Since according to Norman Pogson (1856), the ratio of two subsequent classes of brightnesses (flux densities)
\begin{equation}
\frac{F_m}{F_{m+1}} = 100^{1/5} = 10^{2/5} = 10^{0,4},
\end{equation}
the difference between two apparent magnitudes:
\begin{equation}
m_x - m_y = -\frac{5}{2}\lg{ \left( \frac{F_x}{F_y} \right)}
\end{equation}

If the magnitude ##0## is chosen to represent a certain flux density ##F_0##, generally corresponding to the flux density ##F## there is a corresponding magnitude
\begin{equation}
m = -\frac{5}{2}\lg{ \left( \frac{F}{F_0} \right)}
\end{equation}

The Attempt at a Solution



From the assignment, the total magnitude of the system is chosen to be zero. Therefore we can get the apparent magnitude of the third component from ##(3)## as follows:
\begin{equation}
m_3 = -\frac{5}{2}\lg{ \left( \frac{F_3}{F_0} \right)},
\end{equation}
where ##F_0## is the flux density of the system.

Since I have no idea, what the flux densities are, I think I might be better off trying to solve for the ratio ##\frac{F_3}{F_0}##. Now
\begin{equation}
\frac{F_3}{F_1} = 10^{-0,4(m_3 - m_1)} \text{ and } \frac{F_3}{F_2} = 10^{-0,4(m_3 - m_2)}
\end{equation}
Solving these for ##F_3##:
\begin{equation}
F_3 = 10^{-0,4(m_3 - m_1)}F_1 = 10^{-0,4(m_3 - m_2)}F_2
\end{equation}

Plugging into ##(4)##:
\begin{equation}
m_3 = -\frac{5}{2}\lg{ \left( 10^{-0,4(m_3 - m_1)}\frac{F_1}{F_0} \right)},
\end{equation}
Now
\begin{equation}
\frac{F_1}{F_0} = 10^{-0,4m_1},
\end{equation}
which when plugged into ##(7)## yields ##m_3 = m_3##, so I am obviously missing something.

But what exactly?
 
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TheSodesa said:
I am obviously missing something
Leaving magnitudes aside for the moment, what do you think the relatioship would be between the individual flux densities and the combined flux density?
 
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haruspex said:
Leaving magnitudes aside for the moment, what do you think the relatioship would be between the individual flux densities and the combined flux density?

Well, picking up my second edition of Understanding Physics by Mansfield and O'Sullivan, flux density is defined as follows: F:= \lim_{\Delta A \rightarrow 0} \frac{\Delta \Phi}{\Delta A}\hat{t}, where ##\Phi## is the flux through area ##A## on the enclosing surface, and ##\hat{t}## a unit vector pointing in the direction of the flux. If we have 3 sources producing flux inside of a surface, at each point on the surface their flux should be summed, meaning the total flux density
\begin{equation}
F_{tot} = \lim_{\Delta A \rightarrow 0} \frac{\sum_{i=1}^{n}\Delta \Phi_i \hat{t_i}}{\Delta A} = \sum_{i=1}^{n}F_i,
\end{equation}
where ##n## is the number of elements producing flux. At least that's what my intuition says.
 
Last edited:
haruspex said:
Leaving magnitudes aside for the moment, what do you think the relatioship would be between the individual flux densities and the combined flux density?

If my assumption in post #3 is correct, the total flux detected at the observation point ##F_0 = F_1 + F_2 + F_3 \iff F_3 = F_0 - (F_1 + F_2)##. Then ##(4)## becomes
\begin{equation}
m_3 = -\frac{5}{2}\lg \left( \frac{F_3}{F_0} \right) = -\frac{5}{2}\lg \left( 1 - \frac{F_1 + F_2}{F_0} \right) =
-\frac{5}{2}\lg \left( 1 - \frac{F_1}{F_0} - \frac{F_2}{F_0} \right)
\end{equation}

Again, we can solve for the ratios ##\frac{F_1}{F_0}## and ##\frac{F_2}{F_0}## as follows using ##(3)##:
\begin{equation}
\frac{F_1}{F_0} = 10^{-0,4m_1} \text{ and } \frac{F_2}{F_0} = 10^{-0,4m_2}
\end{equation}

Therefore
<br /> m_3 = -\frac{5}{2}\lg \left( 1 - \frac{F_1}{F_0} - \frac{F_2}{F_0} \right) = -\frac{5}{2}\lg \left( 1 - 10^{-0,4m_1} - 10^{-0,4m_2} \right) = 0,883002 \approx 0,9,<br />
which was the desired answer.

Thanks. :smile:
 
Last edited:

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