Man on ladder: jump off instantly vs last moment?

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on the physics of a man jumping off a rotating ladder at the last moment versus free falling. Key equations include the final velocity calculation using ##v_{f} = \sqrt{2gs}## and momentum considerations with ##p_{f} = (M+m)v_{f}##. The consensus is that jumping off at the last moment is preferable, as it minimizes impact forces. Participants emphasize the importance of analyzing both kinetic energy and rotational dynamics to fully understand the scenario.

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vxr
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Homework Statement
A ladder of length ##l = 8.6 m## long and mass ##m = 60 kg## is placed in nearly vertical position against the wall of a building. You stand on a rung with your center of mass at the top of ladder. As you lean back slightly, the ladder begins to rotate about its base away from the wall. Is it better to quickly step off the ladder and drop to the ground or to hold onto the ladder and step off just before the top end hits the ground? In calculations take your mass.
Relevant Equations
##p = mv, E_{k} = \frac{mv^2}{2}##
So there are two cases:
a). free fall (straight forward for me)
b). ladder rotating and jumping off in last moment (I am interested in trying to understand this case)

I believe I should take into account momentum at the time the man hits the ground in both cases? The smaller, the better. Or should I take into account kinetic energy? Both use mass and velocity.

This is pretty much the b). case:

245506

Red is the almost-vertical (assume vertical) ladder, and pink is its movement when it's rotating. Total distance the man standing on top of the rotating ladder travels is ##s = \frac{2\pi r}{4} = \frac{\pi r}{2}##

I need to find final velocity of such system. How do I find it? I think there is no horizontal acceleration, horizontal velocity is constant. On the other hand ##a = g## and vertical velocity is not constant.

Should I use this equation?

##v_{f}^2 = v_{i}^2 + 2as##

##v_{f}^2 = v_{i}^2 + 2gs \quad \land \quad v_{i} = 0##

##v_{f}^2 = 2gs##

##v_{f} = \sqrt{2gs} = \sqrt{g\pi r}##

And when calculating the momentum I should take into account in this case sum of both ladder and a man's mass? Let ##M## be a mass of man.

##p_{f} = (M+m)v_{f}##

##p_{f} = (M+m)\sqrt{g \pi r}##

This seems too simple, I am sure I have made some mistakes, right? Perhaps forgot about some ##v_{x}## or ##v_{y}## components? And/or I shouldn't take into account sum of both masses, because after all the man jumps off of the ladder the very last moment.

Thanks for help.
 
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Look up how rotating objects behave. Consider the ladder like a rod and find the moment of inertia. What forces are acting on the ladder and the man?
 
vxr said:
Should I use this equation? ##v_{f}^2 = v_{i}^2 + 2as##
No, that equation is only for constant acceleration. In this case you would need to replace "as" with an integral, and that is true whether you are considering the vertical component of motion or the tangential.
vxr said:
should take into account in this case sum of both ladder and a man's mass?
Only if you are going to allow the ladder to land on top of you.

@scottdave suggests considering the forces in rotational acceleration, but it is easier to work with energy. Consider what the KEs of the various components are at impact.
 
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Without doing any proofs, it is better to jump off last moment, right?
 
vxr said:
Without doing any proofs, it is better to jump off last moment, right?
Yes.
 
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